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Author Topic: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?  (Read 21831 times)

waltergmw

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2010, 11:02:28 PM »

@ Jeff,

Also if BT know they have some very unreliable aluminum, or other significant cable fault, or even just having not enough pairs in the cable, they are bound to replace that cable as they DO have a Universal Service Obligation just on the telephone side.

Kind regards,
Walter
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coolsnakeman

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2010, 11:11:34 PM »

Well BT are having to install new cabinets to fit the DSLAMS for the FTTC so that is a big cost to them to start of with. The cabinets they are fitting are much bigger than the cabinets you see now. Off course there needs to be an upgrade to the PCP's and SCP's i am sure aswell. The cost of fibre is MUCH more than the cost of copper. For 400 metres of copper your talking about £80000 or possibly more so i was told by an OR engineer but i am near sure the cost of fibre is almost double to that. I have still not got my head around why this FTTC is not being rolled out EVERYWHERE cause you think of it this way the more its rolled out the more costume comes to SP that are investing into the roll out it just doesn't make sense. Why should rural areas not get this service i mean those areas are the type of areas that have been suffering the worse BB for many years now so i think they deserve some half decent service for BB.

Regards
Gary
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waltergmw

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2010, 11:37:29 PM »

@ Gary,

The cost you have been quoted is the price to lay new ducts and a cable. Somebody other than BT with a more realistic costing system would probably be cheaper.
I had a quotation about two years ago for 100 Pr 0.5 mm Catenary cable at just under £3,000. IF the cables are in ducts, and not all BT cables are, then the replacement cost would be substantially less.

Kind reagrds,
Walter
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bluebeanbandit

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2010, 03:17:34 PM »

Patience is the key if your waiting for FTTC.  OR is in the very early stages of what will be the future of broadband and how we use it at home and office.  I am sure everyone remembers the early days of ADSL, i waited for 4 years for it to hit my exchange area when the exchange serving the other half of my town was one of the first for ADSL and is now FTTC ready.  If you have a BT Wholesale competitor such as Virgin Media operating in your area you are more likely to be one of the first FTTC areas.

The speed of Metallic Path ADSL is dependant on Loss Insertion @300khz (measured in db's)  For the vast majority, your metallic pair from exchange to pcp (e-side) is going to take the largest chunk of your db loss (pair material, conductor poundage and distance have the largest impact on loss) FTTC  is going to take this loss away giving anyone an improvement in speed (including rural!)  An example would be an end user with 78db loss over an 7.5km line (5km e-side  and 2.5km d-side) take away the e-side using FTTC and they may have a 25db loss, 15meg would now be realistic (better than 1.2meg)

As far as OR replacing e side cables to improve ADSL speed, NO CHANCE!  This would break every rule in the OFCOM book.  I am also sure with the sky high price of copper, fibre is a far more economic option.

If OR upgraded every PCP to FTTC in a short time period they could never keep up with the demand placed on the engineering workforce.  Remember ADSL wasnt always 'self-install' although this could happen for FTTC in the future along with VOIP as standard.
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Chrysalis

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2010, 10:50:27 PM »

@ chrisalys,

Just to add some more confusion you'll see at:-

http://www.idnet.net/support/fibreavailability.jsp

That Narborough only has about 10,500 premises but is due for FTTC by December 2010.

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EMNARBO

Perhaps it's that Virgin or somebody else are planning an upgrade there ?

In your case, the only obstacle I've noticed are exchanges with a lot of lines connected directly to the exchange rather than through a PCP.

Kind regards,
Walter

that could well be a reason, I dont know what % of lines are connected direct vs a cabinet, but it could be the reason.

I should note all the immediate properties close to the exchange are mostly commercial as its a city centre, I would be surprised if many residental properties do not go through a cabinet.

and yes narborough is one of the various surrounding exchanges that is FTTC enabled, its a largish village.
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Chrysalis

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2010, 10:52:19 PM »

@ chrisalys,

Just to add some more confusion you'll see at:-

http://www.idnet.net/support/fibreavailability.jsp

That Narborough only has about 10,500 premises but is due for FTTC by December 2010.

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EMNARBO

Perhaps it's that Virgin or somebody else are planning an upgrade there ?

In your case, the only obstacle I've noticed are exchanges with a lot of lines connected directly to the exchange rather than through a PCP.

Kind regards,
Walter

that could well be a reason, I dont know what % of lines are connected direct vs a cabinet, but it could be the reason.

I should note all the immediate properties close to the exchange are mostly commercial as its a city centre, I would be surprised if many residental properties do not go through a cabinet.

and yes narborough is one of the various surrounding exchanges that is FTTC enabled, its a largish village.

Patience is the key if your waiting for FTTC.  OR is in the very early stages of what will be the future of broadband and how we use it at home and office.  I am sure everyone remembers the early days of ADSL, i waited for 4 years for it to hit my exchange area when the exchange serving the other half of my town was one of the first for ADSL and is now FTTC ready.  If you have a BT Wholesale competitor such as Virgin Media operating in your area you are more likely to be one of the first FTTC areas.

The speed of Metallic Path ADSL is dependant on Loss Insertion @300khz (measured in db's)  For the vast majority, your metallic pair from exchange to pcp (e-side) is going to take the largest chunk of your db loss (pair material, conductor poundage and distance have the largest impact on loss) FTTC  is going to take this loss away giving anyone an improvement in speed (including rural!)  An example would be an end user with 78db loss over an 7.5km line (5km e-side  and 2.5km d-side) take away the e-side using FTTC and they may have a 25db loss, 15meg would now be realistic (better than 1.2meg)

As far as OR replacing e side cables to improve ADSL speed, NO CHANCE!  This would break every rule in the OFCOM book.  I am also sure with the sky high price of copper, fibre is a far more economic option.

If OR upgraded every PCP to FTTC in a short time period they could never keep up with the demand placed on the engineering workforce.  Remember ADSL wasnt always 'self-install' although this could happen for FTTC in the future along with VOIP as standard.

my exchange was within the first 20 outside of london to be adsl enabled back in 1999, the other city centre exchange next to it was the 3rd non london exchange enabled in nov 1999.

this area does also have VM.

whilst OR are in early stages of physical rollout work they have actually announced the majority of exchanges that will be upgraded, also I have had confirmation direct from the BT boardroom my exchange will not be enabled.  I dont think replcing copper breaks ofcom rules, but its simply something that is a waste of time as its high cost and obselete technology, but BT are a company that make decisions that baffle various people.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 10:56:30 PM by Chrysalis »
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bluebeanbandit

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2010, 10:27:31 PM »

The IDNET site's list goes upto 2011 but the first rollout which will see 40% of the UK FTTC ready is due for completion by 2012 and 66% by 2015.  I would be suprised if any final decisons have been made on who gets it and when, beyond 2012.  Look at Cornwall Council who have pushed themselves up the list by tendering a contract for a single coms supplier, won by BT, FTTC on its way.
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Drefsab

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2010, 10:03:06 AM »

My FTTC line went in yesterday and so far testing is very good. I get full sync rate on up and down so have the max IP profile speedtest's reflect this nicely. Pings are on par with my ADSL and Virgin connection's, the extra upload is very nice though :)
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Aaron Eldridge
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The opinions expressed here are my own and not necessarily those of Zen Internet

waltergmw

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2010, 10:41:06 AM »

@ BlueBeanBandit,

Cornwall are to be praised indeed for being proactive.
However I suspect they are better off than many UK areas as I believe they are classed as a deprived area and thus eligible for larger EC Grants.

Kind regards,
Walter
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geep

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Re: BT Infinity - performance vs Virgin cable?
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2010, 03:47:37 PM »

Hmm. Out of the blue I got an update email from BT about the non-availability of Infinity.

They still have a list here: http://tinyurl.com/yhvqhal of "indicative, subject to change" dates
which shows my exchange getting Infinity on 31st Dec 2010.

But on a new fancy checker from this page: http://tinyurl.com/399eduu my exchange
is not listed at all - and these dates go out to 31st March 2011.

Isn't BT great? Anybody else had their hopes of getting fibre dashed?

Whoops - I sort of take it all back. Just looking at the map again to see if my sister in Kent
will get fibre I see that my exchange has moved from the East of England to the
South East of England, but still has the 31st Dec 2010 date. Seems that BT don't quite know
where their exchanges are. Else they're going to relocate the exchange by about 50 miles.

Cheers,
Peter
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