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[HPsauce]

I'm still perplexed as to why my speed is so poor, however quirky my wiring. 

Well, without going in to lots of details, for now take it as read.

I recently helped a  friend "rationalise" his phone wiring, which had multiple "generations" of kit, some of it from the 1930's!
By removing the bell wire, disconnecting unwanted cabling, simplifying, removing multiple branches and junctions, fitting a single "proper" master socket at the point of entry, etc. his speed improved from below 2mbps to a maximum 8mbps. 

[drmrbrewer]

Well routerstats has been logging stats all day.  The Tx noise margin plot was completely flat all day, not budging a pixel either way.  The Rx noise margin plot was flat all day, but in the last couple of hours has shown a very tiny deviation.  The house has been occupied all day, and the phone in use.

See attached.

Mike


[attachment deleted by admin]

[drmrbrewer]

I think I finally found the master socket.  It's not where I'd expect it to be.  It's very much on an internal wall.  The external cable must either travel under the house and up again (unlikely) or snake its way under floorboards to reach this master socket.  Do BT own the circuit up to this point?  And it's the socket I'd actually been connection the router into, by chance.   I removed the front cover, which presumably disconnected all the complicated extensions there might be, plugged the router directly into the test socket inside, and nothing much really seems to have changed.  Attached is a plot from routerstats -- the trough is for the period I had the router/modem unplugged while I took the master socket apart and plugged the modem into the test socket.  You can see the plot has just risen immediately back to the same place, and is now flat-lining merrily along.

And here are the stats from the BT speedchecker:

 Download speedachieved during the test was - 444 Kbps
 For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 50-500 Kbps.
 Additional Information:
 Your DSL Connection Rate :576 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 256 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
 IP Profile for your line is - 500 Kbps


Mike


Edit: I note that the download speed is higher than it was before -- compared to earlier post of mine -- but still nothing to write home about.  And maybe just different time of day.




[attachment deleted by admin]

[waltergmw]

Hi Mike,

BT do own the cable up to the master socket IF that is the only master socket and is the first in line.
It's not uncommon to find several master sockets.
If the front plate has wires on it you have probably disconnected the extension sockets, but you should check that all are dead as star wiring is often found in older properties.

Remember to turn the power off before disconnecting the modem.
Try not to do so after dark as there is usually more noise then.
Also don't turn the modem off too many times in any hour.

Kind regards,
Walter

[jeffbb]

Hi
quote Thanks.  Given that my SNR is good, I'm still perplexed as to why my speed is so poor, however quirky my wiring.

From your stats ,I agree  an snr margin of about 30 db indicates you are on wrong package. Every 3db above 6db could be the equivalent of 1200Kbps. That means you could easily connect at The maximum for an 8Max account(8124Kbps.You seem to be going round round in circles . NO amount of connection checking will improve your connection until you get The ISP to correctly connect you to the 8max package.
The SNR is rock steady. You had a disconnection for a few minutes ??. Any obvious reason ?

I don't think you have posted your full router stats yet?  to see what errors you are running.Need to see these to confirm you do not have serious line problems. Although if you did I would expect the SNR margin graph to show some symptoms .

Unfortunately first line ISP help are next to useless with a few exceptions . Most won't understand anything about statistics . Somehow you have to get to the next level of help.
Regards Jeff

[sevenlayermuddle]

Your connection is ALWAYS the same, 576 downstream, which does suggest that you are in a fixed rate. 

Your SNRM is ALWAYS similar, a 'whopping' 30-ish dB, which begs the question 'why are you on a fixed rate'?.

If you were to be put back on an adaptive rate and I can pretty much guarantee that you'd see a huge improvement in connection speed.  But it would be nice to know why your ISP thought the fixed rate  was necessary.  I assume there was a reason, such as frequent disconnects  and, on an adaptive rate, the reason would once again become apparent, unless you have rectified the cause.

The answer may lie in the fact hat it only takes a short-duration interference pulse to kill the connection, whereas short spikes of interference tend to pass unnoticed by routerstats - at least, on it's SNRM graphs.   Any defects in your wiring could increase the vulnerability of the router to such interference spikes.

Perhaps, unless anybody has any other suggestions, the best way forwards is to rectify any wiring faults (including those non-working sockets), to tell your ISP you've done so, and then request to be put back on an adaptive service.  And then to see how things work out...

- 7LM

 

[jeffbb]

Hi
quote whereas short spikes of interference tend to pass unnoticed by routerstats - at least, on it's SNRM graphs

possibly but not consistently ,That is why we need to see the full Statistics  ,errors etcetera to confirm or otherwise that the line is stable.

Regards Jeff

[drmrbrewer]

I posted my router stats back near the start of this thread.  And that drop-out in the plot was when I disconnected the modem from the phone socket while I opened up the socket to find the test socket. 

Presumably it is OK to leave the modem (and phone) connected to the test socket for a period of time while I try to get the ISP to get me back on the 8M adaptive rate?

Mike

[sevenlayermuddle]

Presumably it is OK to leave the modem (and phone) connected to the test socket for a period of time while I try to get the ISP to get me back on the 8M adaptive rate?

Yes.

There is, of course, a possibility that your line will become unstable when operating at a more sensible SNRM (which allows higher connection speed).  But it sound likely you should be able to address that with wiring improvements, rather than resort to the ISP's apparent 'solution' of putting you on a low fixed rate.

[HPsauce]

7LM has hit the nail on the head.  

I would advise you to try and sort out the wiring ASAP, preferably before your ISP switches you to an adaptive rate.
The reason is simple, the initial period on a rate-adaptive product is used to test the line and set various error thresholds; it is virtually impossible to get this done again even if MAJOR improvements are made and acknowledged.

[drmrbrewer]

That's useful to know.  I'm tempted just to use the test socket for good -- at least until we get around to rewiring, which won't be for at least a year.  We only actually need one phone point (the second phone point is wireless), and for the modem.  Both can come off the test socket, and all the dodgy wiring is out of the circuit as a result.

Mike

[HPsauce]

I'm tempted just to use the test socket for good

That's an excellent idea if you can do it.

Just verify that all the other sockets are "dead" in that configuration, and ideally try and trace back the wiring so that you know there are no hidden connections.
What sort of cable comes into the back of the test socket and what is connected to the A B terminals (usually screw but may be IDC)?

[UncleUB]

I'm tempted just to use the test socket for good

I do and don't have any problems.Tbh That is the only scoket I have in the house,but I leave it plugged in there (it saves time if /when you need isp support and they ask you to plug your router into the test socket) 

[sevenlayermuddle]

the initial period on a rate-adaptive product is used to test the line and set various error thresholds; it is virtually impossible to get this done again even if MAJOR improvements are made and acknowledged.

good point, HP.

[drmrbrewer]

Here we go the merry-go-round again.  I rang Virgin tech support this morning.  They say there isn't any restriction.  I insisted there was.  They said that the only way of escalating this to BT would be if I had three tests from speedtester.bt.com logged below 400k download speed.   Now, the last couple of tests I've logged on that site were above 400k, and this may have been a direct result of using the test socket.  My first speed test I logged (see nearer the start of this thread) was around 270k. 

So do I connect back all my dodgy wiring and hope that I can log three tests below 400k, just to get this escalated to BT?  Will that really do any good?  What I really want is for BT to have a look at this when I'm only using the test socket.  Perhaps get three dodgy test results in, and then connect to test socket once it has been escalated?  They still might not address the real issue, which is to have the restriction lifted to see if I can get a decent service back.

Looking back at my stats, where exactly is the restriction being applied?  By BT at the exchange?  How do they apply that restriction to my line only?  Is it a software profile of some sort, or is there a physical restriction in place somehow?

Thanks,

Mike