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Author Topic: hey have i got the worst line in the UK????  (Read 6949 times)

chris87

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hey have i got the worst line in the UK????
« on: July 11, 2006, 12:34:24 AM »

hey am chris and from hull

i am currently using karoo broadand 500 (cannot use any other ISP as i cant use BT)  :( had broadband for a year now and have had constant severe problems my internet used to dissconnect very randomly then it changed dissconnected all the time at night coudnt even connect to the internet for long periods its not as bad now only dissconnects 3 times a day rang karoo they just kept telling me its adware but am sure it wasnt that so i started researching and got my line stats had low SNR (well did) these are my line stats

router DG834GT super wireless
ADSL Link Downstream         Upstream
Connection Speed 608 kbps   288 kbps
Line Attenuation 61.0 db        31.5 db
Noise Margin 18.9 db             16.0 db

i am desperate to get 1 meg but i dont think my line is good enough any advice ??

all i know in my house is theres about 4 phone sockets ran around on a extension lead  :)
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chris87

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good
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2006, 01:32:16 AM »

and by the way this website has helped me alot thanks kitz  8)
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kitz

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hey have i got the worst line in the UK????
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2006, 01:14:51 PM »

Hi chris

Your SNR Margin doesnt look too bad... but your attenuation isnt good at all 61dB generally means 512kb is the limit.

There isnt much as an end user you can do about attenuation as its related to the length of the line.

Does you SNR margin move at all, ie does that figure decrease in the evenings?
Since you are on *traditional adsl* problems normally start to occur in the <10-12 dB region.

Line stability + drop outs normally relate to low SNR.
Do you have a lot of HEC/CRC errors (check your router stats).

Do you have access to a test socket behind the master socket and are things better if you plug your router in there?  If so one of the filtered faceplates will very likely help.
(as per 1/2 way down the page http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm).


Adaware doesnt cause loss of sync only line/telecoms conditions can do that... and loss of PPP is down to telecoms/ISP.
Malware/spyware likes you to be online cause thats when it does its "dirty work".


Just as an aside cause I have to ask for elimination purposes..  its not just the wireless connection on your router dropping.. and it is full loss of synchronisation with the exchange. (Check the adsl light on your router).
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How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

chris87

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hey
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2006, 02:38:41 PM »

i have 1 router and 2 modems speedtouch and zoom and they all jus completely cut out jus cant connect up to the exchange sometimes

my SNR varies at times drops by 2db ranges between 18 and 22

used my router at master socket and still got 61 line attenuation downstream and my other modems give me very similar results (SNR an attenuation)
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kitz

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hey have i got the worst line in the UK????
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2006, 06:03:33 PM »

I wouldnt expect your attenuation to vary that much - for the reasons stated above.

You should be able to hold a steady connection though on that SNR Margin.

If you were on a BTw product I would press your ISP to get an engineer to come check things over.  Im not sure what happens in Hull though, but I would say an engineer checking out your line wouldnt do any harm.

I know BTw sometimes even fit those NTE5 faceplates free on longer length lines.
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How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

chris87

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hey
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2006, 10:15:02 PM »

ok i will try an get them to bring an engineer round  :)  thanks for the help anyway and information
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kitz

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hey have i got the worst line in the UK????
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2006, 08:49:52 AM »

good luck chris - hope he is able to sort something for you.
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chris87

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update
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2006, 06:35:23 PM »

this is off karoo they dont mention to me about my line attenuation even though i did mention it to them  :?

Dear Chris,
 
The SNR value would indeed drop if you upgraded to the 1Mb package. I have tested your line temporarily on a different port profile and your SNR value was just about ok for a consistent connection on the 1Mb service. Have you made sure all phones, Sky etc. are connected via microfilters? Anything that has not been connected via a microfilter can lower your bandwidth and SNR, as can extension leads and faulty microfilters.
 
I hope this information is of help.
 
Kind regards
 
Internet Helpdesk
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kitz

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hey have i got the worst line in the UK????
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2006, 01:53:07 AM »

At least they are more on the right track now.. rather than adaware.
- It also sounds like karoo has done the equivalent of a BTw WOOSH test ? which is a good thing.

If you upgrade to 1Mb you could expect your SNRMargin to drop in the region of 6dB.
But the fact that your connection is dropping out atm is a concern, - as it is more likely to do so at higher speeds.

Is stability any better if you keep the router plugged in at the master socket?  Did you manage to get details of any HEC/CRC errors from your router.
Im also assuming that you have done everything you can so far from the low SNR page link above.

The thing is though - 18dB should be more than adequate to keep your line stable...  and why I think it perhaps needs an engineers visit to diagnose onsite properly.

Before BTw IPStream adsl providers can call out a BT Engineer, they have to check that customers have done certain tests themselves.
Checking microfilters etc are what any ISP should be asking.

They are at least now asking the right questions, so I would reply to them letting them know what you have tried so far.
If Kingston Communications are anything like BTw -  if an engineer is called out and they find that the fault was something like you having installed filters  BTw will make a callout fee.
This will therefore probably be the reason why your ISP (quite correctly) is asking you to confirm that you have checked these.
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chris87

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:(
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2006, 10:41:44 PM »

this is my results tonight line attenuation 61 db
 but my noise margin dropped to its lowest 13.6 its usually about 19-21 why can it drop that much?
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kitz

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hey have i got the worst line in the UK????
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2006, 09:23:02 AM »

Its not unheard of for SNR Margin to drop in the evenings - in fact thats when it usually does... hence me asking the question earlier on in the thread.

Various things can introduce Noise on the line - common known factors are:
Street Lighting, Xmas tree lights, Storms, Electrical Interferance.
Adsl traffic is also at its heaviest in the evenings and this extra traffic in itself can produce extra noise or crosstalk.

Sometimes the decline may be gradual, (say as traffic gets busier) or sometimes it will be abrupt.

Abrupt decreased are normally from an electrical source.
A typical example of this happening is on line 2 at the bottom of this page here
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/mymax.htm

See the green on the graph - sometimes the SNRMargin is at 10dB, then it will drop right down to practically zero or on occasion below zero.

Please bear in mind those graphs are taken from maxdsl accounts therefore it can tolerate lower SNRMargins.  On traditional adsl - which you have - drop outs can start to occur at below 10dB. But the graphs still show what can happen to your SNRMargin - and exactly why a margin has to be there in the first place.



PS.
Dont let that start you thinking that maxdsl could be a cure in your case - because being on max causes SNR to drop further.  
See the graph on the left thats on an "excellent line".  The drop you can just see from 31dB to 9dB was when it was switched over to max.
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chris87

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hey
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2006, 12:48:43 PM »

i got about 4 ADSL filters in my house connected and only 2 phones are connected to 2 filters if i even remove a filter without a phone conencted my SNR still goes down by about 5db
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