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[funkyfin2000]

At the end of the day his router is fairly old anyway so it's worth replacing.

He has old "speedtouch" filters from his old speedtouch model before the linksys router. We did try 3 different filters (all speedtouch) with the same result. I have a spare BT faceplate from solway or whatever they are called that I havn't used at my own house (due to me being plugged stright in to the test point)

So I will get that wired in, remove ALL orange white and white orange wires around the house (he has his alarm also plumbed in the loft to the phone line) so must check that (he was told that was filtered by the alarm team) and so we have no useless wires plumbed in.

Then all the extensions should be working again once that faceplate is in. I will then get decent filters put on any of the extensions, install his new decent Netgear Wireless N router and see what happens!

All that to happen on Wednesday, his order in to Ebuyer should be with him tomorrow.

Will report back how we get on.

Another plan of attack - are there BT people on here that are able to help at all? No virgin people but what about BT people that are willing to help or is that toooo much to ask

Rich

[funkyfin2000]

Tomorrow is the day peeps!

If anyone is about i will update the thread tomorrow with my findings whilst over at my friends house! I do see a call to Virgin coming up tho!

Any further advice if I do call them to force them to log a call with BT! Just tell them to look at the attuenation and see that it is FAR TOO LOW i guess!

Update tomorrow anyway!

Rich

[coolsnakeman]

Hey mate. Unfortunately for your friends broadband noone from BT can help as this needs to go through VM. Compliance and all that from the regulators ofcom to ensure there is a fair trade in the market. Post your stats up tomorrow with the new equipment connected and then we can go from there. If the stats turn out to be the same then be sure to write down EVERYTHING you have done before getting onto virgin. After that is done you will have answered all there questions so its time to have the issue escalated to level 2 support (who i hear are brilliant at VM) to have this logged to BTW.

[funkyfin2000]

Hi All,

What a day I tell you! From 8:30am - 3pm! Lots and lots of work having been done. I shall try and summarise:

1. First of all I found all of his telephone points in the house and took all of them apart, removing any bell wires, leaving just blue/white and white/blue connected.
His points are:

1 in the Study - One set of blue/white wires punched in (Brand New ADSL Filter fitted - connected to FAX)
1 on one side of the Play Room - Three sets of Blue/White wires punched in (Nothing plugged in)
1 on other side of Play Room - one set of blue/White wires punches in and connected from previous play room socket (Nothing plugged in)
1 in the Dining Room - One set of blue/white wires punched in linked to the point in the playroom mentioned previously (Nothing plugged in)
1 in the kitchen  - One set of blue/white wires punched in (Brand New ADSL Filter fitted  - connected to telephone)

1 master socket in the bedroom - blue/white wires to MAIN BT test point, blue/white wires to standard plate on front.

In the LOFT - Main black drop line comes in from outside the house, across the loft and then heads DOWN towards the Master Socket in the bedroom, BUT, illegally the Alarm installation has been spliced in to the drop wire!! The alarm box, once opened contains an ADSL filter in it. As i say the rest of the drop wire heads DOWN towards the master socket. As i looked in the master socket I could see the black sheath of the drop wire so know that was it coming in.

I then removed the old ROUTER from the study. We opened up the new Netgear Wireless N router and connected that in to the main BT Master Socket TEST PORT. From the PC then we had a MASSIVE success!! The sync speed hit 7616Kpbs and the Upload speed hit 448k! Tested we received a nice connection of 530k a sec!!!!! It did waver quite a bit though from about 400 - 530k.

Now then at this point, we really wanted to move the router back downstairs to the study, so I duly connected the faceplate back in to the Master Socket and removed the router downstairs. This is where things got complicated! The sync speed dropped to 909kpbs!!!

I then went back upstairs to put an old corded phone in the test port, i stripped the wires back and repunched them in the BT TEST socket and in the faceplate (also trying the new filteresd ADSL plate) what transpired was that we started to get a very crackly line sometimes and sometimes not. Through the test port EVERY single time I would NEVER EVER get a crackly line. Once I plugged the ADSL filtered faceplate or the ordinary face plate I could get a decent non crackly line sometimes, but as soon as I started to screw it in, the line went crackly again. I re checked everything the punching in etc but to no avail.

I then tried the ADSL faceplate, NOT connected to the extension blue/white wiring but just plugged in - so basically connected in to the test socket through the ADSL face plate and the telephone line was not one bit crackly. That proved to me that I think the extension wiring somewhere is knacered.

So the conclusion to all this was:- ADSL face plate fitted upstairs in the bedroom with the extension wiring fitted also. I then moved the router BACK UPSTAIRS and connected that to the ADSL port on the faceplate. I then made sure his phone downstairs in the kichen was all ok and not crackly. It was all fine.

This is now where I have left it and I have the following stats:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7328 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 10.0 db 6.0 db
Noise Margin 11.6 db 23.0 db

As you can see the sync has dropped marginally from the test port (to be expected I suppose) and sadly what happened with all the mucking about with wires etc etc is that his BRAS profile has been clamped down to 500k.

In conclusion I think that there is NOT an exchange issue, but he had a dodgy router firstly, and also dodgy extension wiring. I hope over night his BRAS profile will come back up to 5000-5500k and he will have a fairly steady connection.

What he needs to decide is whether or not we disconnect and remove ALL extensions ports mentioned above he doesn't need and whether or not he can get someone out to put in CAT6 cable to his Study to feed his router off this or at least move the BT MAIN SOCKET. It really isn't ideal having his equipment in his bedroom one bit!

So thoughts people?? This really is a tricky one, after a long day, I think we definetly got somewhere, although not quite the exact solution we wanted!

Rich

[waltergmw]

Hi Rich,

I know only too well how long these thing can take. When you say you stripped the wires back, I trust you just meant stripped the sheath back as IDC connectors expect to have insulation still in place.

You also have to consider whether there will be any loger term degradation particularly with the alarm system. I wonder whether you could put the master socket in the roof before the alarm system (carefully so as not to set the alarm off) and run the ethernet signal around the house using home plugs. (There might be access problems and you'd need to think about summer heat in the attic.) Perhaps if the BT engineer is called out again bacon butties and tea might ease the pain a bit !

If there are redundant slave sockets around the house I would remove the pairs from the feeding socket(s) but mark them as disconnected. Also leave a wiring diagram around for the next person involved.

Kind regards,
Walter

[funkyfin2000]

Thank you for the prompt reply again, brilliant. I have to say everyone on this forum who has helped so far I am extremely greatful for.

Right then, yes you make a good point about moving the BT Master Socket in to the loft before the splicing of the Alarm. The alarm company has put in these clear plastic connectors that have glue in them.

One thing I have never done if put a connector on the end of a phone cable actually, something I may need to learn possibly! Which number do you call at BT to come out and do wiring in your house for you? Will they do that kind of thing? My friend is prepared to pay to get this right now and I would rather get someone else to do it than me really!

Yes indeed - Sorry when I meant strip back, I meant I have cut the blue/white wires clean and then punched them in sheath in tact.

What are homeplugs exactly when they are at home? I might pop over again and see if we can disconnect all associated slave sockets. Although the socket in the playroom with 3 seperate blue/white wires coming in will need to be done carefully because i guess some of them are linked to the kitchen and study. Are phone lines wired in a ring/inline so as soon as you unplug one you loose them all???

I think the next step will be to get someone in to reqire the points he wants to use. The Master Socket andthe two sockets to the study and kitchen with CAT 6.

He actually knows the local BT person he told me today so he is going to have a word with him to see if he will do a foreigner.

Rich

[coolsnakeman]

Ok mate you have had one hell of a day so i think its time you let someone else take over your brain must be wrecked lol. Your friend doesn't need all those sockets in the house sometimes anymore than 3 extensions off a master can cause a large amount of issues including REIN issues. Sounds like old BT wiring in the house (the point in the loft) which you could get BT out to upgrade but the fact you have a test point there you may be charged £125 plus £80 an hour after that. Get someone in to wire up CAT5 twisted pair be sure to make good use of the yellow pages cause you will find someone that will do it at a reasonable price. Homeplugs go into your electricity socket and form an ethernet network. You plug one into the electricity socket next to your router and run an ethernet cable from the router to the homeplug then you plug another homeplug next to your PC and run an ethernet cable from that homeplug to the PC and what that does is transmits the data through the electricity current however there is downfalls to homeplugs like everything really. Downfalls are:

1) They can only be plugged into an electricity socket you can not put them into adaptors of any sort
2) The electricity current from the socket you have the first homeplug connected to has to be on the same current as the socket next to the PC so that means checking the electricity flow in the house
3) Price. They can tend to be expensive however for your friends needs he will only need an 85mb transfer rate as the 200mb is more for gamers

I am trying to remember the name of that socket in the loft i will have to get back to you on that one.

Regards
Gary

[funkyfin2000]

Thanks Gary for your reply, useful as it is

I am not sure what you are talking about a box in the loft? We have no connections in the loft apart from the drop wire coming in from outside which goes across the top of the loft, then drops down to the master socket in the bedroom underneath.

The alarm box has been spliced in to this black drop wire and has a filter inside the alarm box.

The homeplug stuff is interesting as my mate has actually got a pack of those at his house that he has been talking about using, but since i don't have a lot of experience with them I didn't want to over complicate the situation at the moment.

Really I need to now think about cutting down the amount of extensions really by removing them one by one and checking the kitchen and study sockets.

I will also see how my friend gets on contacting his BT mate down the road to see if he will do a foreigner and tidy everything up instead, save me coming over and having a go again.

If not it will probably wise to check the yellow pages for a company that might come out and do a decent job. Anyone know what kind of companies do this type of work? (What to search for etc for yellow pages)
Rich

[waltergmw]

Hi again Rich,

Sorry I've been out for the evening.

Firstly the 80 Mbps home plugs such as these

http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-pl-85pe-mk2.htm

are quite adequate for a small local area network inside a normal home.
You should avoid the faster ones in any case as they are often far more sensitive.
You can have up to four plugs which means you have three for Ethernet devices anywhere (usually) in a house.
If you have more than two floors the mains wiring is often wired to individual consumer units (Fuse boxes) and home plugs sometimes don't like working through two.
They often work through two different ring main circuits off the same consumer unit.
If the house is small you can sometimes plug them into extension sockets although that is not recommended.
However NEVER attempt to run them through mains surge protected sockets as are used for computer supplies.
You have probably gathered by now that you might need to experiment.

You should not attempt to disconnect any telephone sockets before you can deduce which are wired in what order.
If there are only two pairs in a socket one will be the feed to the socket and the other will be the ongoing pair to the next "daisy chained" socket.
If there are more than two, again one will be the feed and the others will go on to at least two different sockets.
Again some of this can be easily deduced. A phone engineer would put a tone generator on one socket and use a tracer (i.e. a sniffing device) to find what is connected.

E.g. http://www.jmwlimited.co.uk/Tempo_701K_Cable_Tracing_Kit.html

You might be able to do so by disconnecting the pair in a socket and listening for a dial tone around other sockets.
You could do a similar thing with a small battery and a torch bulb with wires soldered on to it.

If you need to do ethernet wiring the sockets are provided with IDC connectors on the inside so the standard insertion tool you used for the phone wires will work equally well.
You should not have to make off any plugs but if you do you will need a crimp tool for RJ45 ethernet plugs or RJ11 for phone connectors.

Except for BT's master sockets where you MUST use BT staff, I would look for structured wiring people or possibly security alarm people who use the same techniques.
e.g. http://www.rmltd.co.uk/network-cabling.asp
which just happened to be the first I Googled; this is not a particular recommendation.

To intercept the drop wire you will need to get a standard BT Master socket installed by cutting the cable before the alarm splice and then connecting the free end into the top customer-removable part of the master socket. The modem filter can then be plugged into the master socket, or you can fit your own filtered faceplate on to the master socket.

E.g.

http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=sd39bf2bgvt2o9npec6pmjteq6

Edit:-

Incidentally the Alarm connection unit and modem in the attic are almost certainly not illegal.
All competent alarm firms will be using approved POTS (i.e. dial-up) modems installed by accredited engineers.
The reason for so doing is to make it as difficult as possible for intruders to tamper with it.
Such units are frequently alarmed in any case and are usually on a separate telephone line - remember that modern dropwires usually have two pairs in the cable.
Whilst this is fine for the security system it doesn't help an ADSL engineer !
If you do fit a new master socket before the alarm unit you should be prepared for a call from the alarm people whenever you remove the faceplate as you will have disconnected their modem.
When you are testing the broadband it would be helpful to get the alarm firm to test their circuit to see if it causes any problems.
(Another reason for disconnecting redundant extension sockets is to remove the possibilityy of inteference from long lengths of parallel adjacent phone and alarm cabling.)

I hope I've not confused you too much. However I suggest if in doubt leave well alone!

Kind regards,
Walter

[funkyfin2000]

Thanks Walter for your input as well very useful.

I think we will leave the home plugs alone for the moment. The other thing he has connected to the power system is a rodent pulser! This might play havac with the home plugs then! I don't want to complicate anything else at the mo! If preferable it would be best if we could move the router to his study connection really.

Any how, again great information.

I wander whether he has too many extensions on the line? Having 1 master socket and 5 extension sockets may seem excessive do you think?

I do agree - I could start to remove the extension sockets trying the kitchen/study phone port as I go. That would probably where I would go next and I feel his NTE5 socket is pretty old, so could do with replacement as well although as the test port works perfectly I don't think theres anything directly up with that.

Otherwise I think probably a reputable company to come in and put the Main BT point in the loft BEFORE the alarm would be the next best idea, although running a new extesion to the study/kitchen will involve the wiring going outside the house and down the wall I think.

He will also contact his BT friend to see whether he would be happy doing a "foreigner" to rewire this.
Either that or I found this local company that maybe competant:

http://www.connexis.co.uk/index.html

No news this morning on whether the IP Profile/BRAS profile has come back up....will find out very soon when he contacts me.

Rich

[waltergmw]

Hi again Rich,

Do make sure that whoever you get involved is aware of the burgler alarm system even before they visit the house.
It might well be worth chatting to the alarm firm in any case as they should be able to advise their client of any issues with ADSL on their circuit or on the adjacent pair.

Kind regards,
Walter

[funkyfin2000]

OK mate will do.

I am just chatting to him on skype now and running a woosh test.

Encouragingly the line has stayed stable at the Line Sync mentioned last night 7268!

The woosh test still shows him at 500k BRAS Profile! Doh!

What we are doing this morning is REMOVE 2 extension sockets, I think they could possibly be the issue. So out of the Playroom Socket2 - where 3 pairs come in, the other playroom and dining room sockets are run off it. We are going to take those 2 sockets OUT of contention.

He also think thats possibly in the loft there was 2 drop wires! One maybe for the alarm (even tho it looks as if it is spliced in) and one for the master socket. If this is correct there is no need to move the master socket to the loft, as the connection would be pure in the bedroom master socket!

God this is complex!

Update you later once he has removed two extensions!

Annoying the IP Profile hasn't updated over night

His Upload is MUCH better tho!

Rich

[waltergmw]

Hi Rich,

That's very strange. When there is a large discrepancy between the current (steady) sync rate and the IP profile / BRAS a change usually happens in a few hours.
With less difference it can take even up to a week - rarely.

You might try a BT speed test which would confirm the IP profile.

Kind regards,
Walter

[funkyfin2000]

Next update..

My friend has removed TWO extension sockets, by taking out the pair in the playroom 1 socket, it has disabled the 2 sockets (socket 2 in the playroom and the dining room) leaving the kitchen and study points still running.

He is now attempting to move the router BACK DOWN to the study and see what sync speed we get.

Yeah - the IP Profile is still stuck at 500k ONLY.

We need to give it at least 3 days really anyway.

Rich

[funkyfin2000]

Next Update..

Not good news.....Router plugged in to the study point with a filter....with those two extension sockets now taken off and the Sync speed is:

DOWN - 352kpbs
UP - 192Kpbs

Not good, in fact even worse than what we had yesterday when we tried that - We had 906kpbs!

He is now going to try the router in the PLAYROOM Socket 1 live point.

Update to follow.....

Rich