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[geep]

Hi everybody,

I've seen that my exchange will be enabled for BT Infinity "up to 40Mb" on 31 Dec 2010. http://tinyurl.com/yhvqhal

I suppose that this means that every cabinet in the area will get fibre? Or just some cabinets - how to know?
The nearest green BT cabinet is about 400m from my house. So if it's fibred up I'm wondering what speed I'd likely get - anybody any ideas?
If I put 5db 0.4km into the kitz speed estimator for ADSL I get a throughput of 21Mbps
And as Infinity uses VDSL I suppose even a bit faster.

Anybody know anything about the VDSL modem BT will be using and its line monitoring capabilties?
I've got used to monitoring my present connection, and now have statistics going back 14 months.

I'm a bit underwhelmed with my current LLU "up to 24Mb" connection, which achieves about 5.5Mb @ 39dB attenuation, 9dB SNR margin. But it is reliable.

Have considered Virgin cable, but wonder about their reliability, as most of the little plastic cabinets locally are vandalized with their bodies askew exposing the wiring to the elements. The nearest Virgin plastic cabinet is about 400m away.  I chatted with a Virgin engineer one day and he told me that their fibre only reaches to some of their big metal cabinets, the nearest fibred one being about 850m away. So any ideas on speed actually achievable with Virgin?

Cheers,
Peter

[BritBrat]

Sorry can't help but my gut feeling is if BT are saying something take it with a pinch of salt.

It may say up to 40MB but 0.5MB is also up to 40MB.

I think it is the caps that you should be looking at, no point going faster to just run out of usage quicker.

[pintosal]

If my exchange (Maidenhead) is anything to go by, then BT are installing the kit for fibre in the exchange, alongside the old.
They are also rolling out new cabinets and laying fibre to them. These new cabs are going firstly into the 'business parks' and areas with high a density of offices, and then spreading outwards into the residential areas.
Talking to some of the BT engineers, they are replacing the old cabinets with much sturdier and larger ones.

[waltergmw]

Hi Geep,

I have a Virgin media 20 mbps service in Guildford and am about 500 m from their level three cabinet with the fibre interconnection.
I believe Virgin use a fibre loop so they can withstand one cable fault on each loop.
I have found them reasonably reliable over probably the last 15 years or so.
The only major outage I've experienced several years ago was after a lightning strike on a hub which took out a single power supply - i.e. one without a back-up.
Evening speeds are sometimes slower down to about 13 Mbps, presumably due to contention.

Here are my current TBB speeds but note that a download of say 500 megs of a software upgrade file usually achieves a throughput of around 2.5 Mbps.
    24/03/10 09:58:18
Speed Down    17302.40 Kbps ( 16.9 Mbps )
Speed Up    713.84 Kbps ( 0.7 Mbps )

Note that their "little plastic cabinets" contain fully shielded co-ax cable (with separate twisted pair telephone lines) and not fibre.
We have Aluminium ones around here which are often in a similar condition but it does not seem to affect reliability or performance - even when one was flattened by a Land Rover last year.

Kind regards,
Walter

[Oranged]

Anybody know anything about the VDSL modem BT will be using and its line monitoring capabilties?

Apparently yes there is a monitoring capability but it can only be accessed by BT, although the BT speedtester site is compatible.

[geep]

Hi all,

Thanks for the comments.
I've now found an interesting resource over on http://www.trefor.net/
He includes a photo of the new fibred cabinet which include a DSLAM.
The minimum speed you'll get is 15Mb. If your line can't support that then BT won't install.

I'll be looking out for new the new cabinets.

Cheers,
Peter

[coolsnakeman]

Ok if you decide to take the infinity services then that means you will get a shiny new telephone socket (VDSL) with a shiny new modem designed yes wait for it by Openreach! You will then be sent an openreach engineer who will then off course install your new socket and your new modem where of course you will connect to the modem via a router with an ethernet cable (basically the same as virgin). If you want an estimate on what you will achieve on this service then go to www.bt.com/infinity and put your number in where it asks for it. It will then tell you what services are available (including FTTC) and give you an estimated speed. Ooooo the benifits of working for BT lol

Regards
Gary

[waltergmw]

@ bluebeanbandit,

It is perhaps a little unfair to suggest everyone will get speeds even over 10 Mbps as in rural areas we would still have some with up to 4 km of aluminum and copper twisted pairs from the PCP or even Generaldisquiet's S(econdary)CP. As far as I can ascertain, there is still no universal service commitment to replace poorly performing cables. Sadly also neither BT nor Virgin Media with their coaxial-cable-to-the-house have any compunction to off-set some of their urban profits towards assisting even quite large rural communities such as Ewhurst with 3 PCPs and 900 homes. Currently there is no National subsidy available and any rural initiative seems to encourage a locally cobbled bespoke idea to provide best endeavour services with much lower returns on investment. (Pace Alston, Lyddington, Erbistock etc.)

Also note at present BT Openreach charge £127.60 for every MPF* connection in a FTTC and then a mere £93.96 per line annual rental. Then to that the installation and hire charges for the backhaul fibres plus the FTTC costs @ say another £30,000 plus a National backhaul must be included. Perhaps some will see what a very unsatisfactory situation these communities are in.

* MPF = Metallic Path Facility i.e. the sub loop unbundling / disconnecting (or SMPF shared for a broadband only connection with a standard phone line).

Sorry about the rant but it was too good an opportunity to miss !

Kindest regards,
Walter

EDIT Bluebeanbandit's post seems to have disappeared from this thread but I feel better for a rant !

[coolsnakeman]

hmmmmm there won't be anymore aluminium cabling from the exchanges when they actually have all this rolled out as it will all be replaced with fibre to the cab there may though be aluminium cable from the cab to the house so perhaps that could be a downfall but the up on this is you won't have a long line any longer as your DSLAM will be in the cab as opposed to the exchange! Rural areas are not being done for now i don't think and i am not to sure when they will be done but by 2012 they hope to have 40% of the UK fitted with FTTC and the option to take on the service.

Regards
Gary

[Drefsab]

Well next week I can give you a more definitive comparison, as I have virgin 50mbit and my FTTC line should be installed on the 18th so watch this space

[waltergmw]

@ Garry,

I believe that none of the larger providers will wish to invest in FTTC for rural communities as they deem them to be uneconomic.
Those in such communities will have to find DIY solutions based around whatever funding can be found.
E.g. a Rutland Telecom broadband & VOIP type solution, which I believe required an investment of £37,000 for a community of 50 users, but hopefully with more joining in the future.
The figures can change quite a bit depending on the location of the nearest fibre, what the back-haul costs are likely to be, and how many PCP and / or SCP green cabinets are to be connected.

Kind regards,
Walter

[Chrysalis]

walter I hear you on the frustration, but is also in inner city areas as well.

please work this one out.

I emailed my MP before she retired and she is on BT's board so had some hope of resolution.

Basically I have succeeded in BT now planning to relay thicker copper to the cabinets connected to both city centre exchanges in leicester (these are mostly all long lines to residental properties), however they stated FTTC is not commercially viable.  Of course the new copper will cost many multiples of a single fibre feed to each cabinet so BT are saying in affect its more commercially viable to lay new copper to the cabinets than fibre.  confused? I certianly am.

I mentioned this on TBB, and I have been told it must be wrong, BT dont do these kind of decisions.  If it is wrong tho it means I am been lied to because thats the clear answer I got back of my MP.

The FTTC rollout is for sure not copying how original adsl rollouts went and also is not only market 2/3 exchanges either, I see some small market 1 exchanges get it alongside big market 3 exchanges not getting it.

The big question is which we all have is what deems a exchange to be commercially viable.

[waltergmw]

@ Chrysalis,

Perhaps it depends upon the weather or whether ? !!!!!!
Perhaps also you recall the definition:-

Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics !

(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics)

I'm astonished that you've achieved ANY changes, even if they are only promises, from BT O due to no Universal Service Obligation.

Kind regards,
Walter

[waltergmw]

@ chrisalys,

Just to add some more confusion you'll see at:-

http://www.idnet.net/support/fibreavailability.jsp

That Narborough only has about 10,500 premises but is due for FTTC by December 2010.

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EMNARBO

Perhaps it's that Virgin or somebody else are planning an upgrade there ?

In your case, the only obstacle I've noticed are exchanges with a lot of lines connected directly to the exchange rather than through a PCP.

Kind regards,
Walter

[jeffbb]

Hi

quote Of course the new copper will cost many multiples of a single fibre feed to each cabinet

Not too sure the above  is right . There may be only a few  cables to cabinet (multi core ) . They only need reconnecting to existing residential connections . Whereas Fibre to cabinet does mean new equipment to connect fibre to the existing residential connections .Possibly swings and roundabouts .
Regards Jeff