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Author Topic: Some snr info  (Read 2248 times)

jeffbb

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Some snr info
« on: February 12, 2010, 11:37:53 PM »

Hi
SNR Margin

See 2 attached Graphs plotted on natural log 3 cycle Graph.

x  represents SNR =Psignal/Pnoise that is the straight signal to noise ratio. I will refer to this as the actual SNR

  SNRdb= 10log(Psignal/Pnoise) Commonly shortened to SNR OR SNR margin

Graph 1

The graph plots the actual SNR  against the SNR(db) plots . It shows that each 3db increase there is  a doubling of the actual SNR . for example 3db =  2x(x is any start value ) and 6db = 4x . So it can be seen that between 3db and say 12 db actual SNR margin has increase by a factor of 8

I have also shown the  relationship between SNR margin and  synch speed ,for a line where the attenuation is such that full 8 max connection can be made . Lines with lower potential connection speed will show smaller average bit loading .

The right hand line indicates a line with an average SNR of 33db.edit :(after allowing for overheads )
The horizontal lines show the average number of Data bits carrier bins per tone that can be loaded .

For any given SNR margin the available room  for data = total SNR-SNR margin

Take the 6db SNR margin as an example then 33db(total SNR) - 6db(SNR margin) =  9 data bits carrier bins can be loaded across the 223 tones .

The QAM rate is said to be 4000Kbps per data bit    carrier bin
(quote : http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adsl_technology.htm)

What this means is that this line  will be able to synch at 8028Kbps
that is 223 tones * 4Kbits * 9  . A similar calculation for any SNR Margin can be calculated in this way

so  
with this line with a 33db average SNR , the following are the maximum calculated  synch speeds .

  SNR Margin(db)     carrier bins        synch speed
       3                        10                    8920Kbps
       6                         9                     8029 Kbps
       9                         8                     7136 Kbps
       12                       7                      6244 Kbps
       15                       6                      5352 Kbps

Quite often ,it is said that the reduction in synch speed makes the line more stable . The reduction in synch speed is an unavoidable  by product of increasing the Target SNR margin . What is stabilising the connection is the increased   SNR margin.
references  

Graph 2  is an attempt to illustrate the effect of increased SNR margin has on line noise

Graph 2
The SNR margin is again showing the same relationship between SNRdb scale and the  actual SNR values .For every 3db of SNR there is a doubling of the  actual SNR   .
 
The second plot identified as +3db noise is a curve that shows the effects of an increase of 3db of noise will have on the SNR margin . This plot is a curve not a straight line ,as plotting a constant value on log axis will produce a curve .

Results  taken from the plot showing the effect of a 3db increase in noise
 Original SNR margin       Approx new SNR margin with
      3db                                           0db
      6db                                           4.8db
      9db                                           8.56db
     12db                                        11.62db

As the  SNR margin increases ,the effect of the noise is minimised  .The opposite will also be true.

This helps to explain why a very stable line at say Target SNR margin of 12 db  showing spikes /drops of 1 db whilst having little or no effect ,can be so unstable when the Target SNR margin is reset to 6db.Reading from the graph the  1db drop from 12 db to 11db translate into a 4x decrease in actual SNR and this is equivalent to a  6db drop against a Target SNR of 6db .result 0db margin .

Reading from the graph is NOT exact but it does show the general  relationship.
EDIT  in the graphs please read data bits as carrier bins
Regards Jeff




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« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 11:02:45 PM by jeffbb »
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general disquiet

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Re: Some snr info
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 09:36:26 AM »

Jeff,

Thanks for this really clear and useful explanation.
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