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Author Topic: Dedicated RJ11 socket  (Read 13104 times)

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2009, 11:30:06 AM »

I never knew you could wire phones in Star (parallel)

It's not a problem for phones,  but I think it can be a theoretical issue for the higher frequency  DSL signals.  I've never been sure why it's an issue, it may be that every time a DSL signal meets a 'dead end' it will reflect back into the wiring again causing distortion, and star wiring has more dead ends.   Maybe somebody else on the forum can explain this if I'm wrong...?

And, of course, if you can isolate the phone wiring from DSL at the master, with an ADSLNation filtered faceplate, then above shouldn't matter.
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HPsauce

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2009, 11:56:58 AM »

Anything you buy now labelled as Cat5 is likely to be Cat5E anyway or very very old stock.
Cat5 was superceded long ago, though in a domestic envirionment it actually won't matter as Cat5 will run Gigabit ethernet quite happily up to 100 metres!
Cat6 I agree - avoid.
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jeffbb

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2009, 03:39:57 PM »

Hi

quote 1 :The improvements were measured by just monitoring the SNRM every second, using the Netgear web interface

Trying to get meaningful results with what is in effect spot check on SNR  is VERY difficult , unless you have a very quiet line with virtually no "jitter" . Using something like routerstats helps with constant monitoring , even then the  graphical presentation has to be interpreted carefully. One great advantage is the SNR "jitter" can be observed prior to any test and the apparent GAINS/ losses can be confirmed  or not .

Quote 2: By the sound of things though, nobody expects it to make much difference it all, if any.

Well that should be good news  :). As mentioned double filtering reportably  works with things ,like Sky boxes *.  That in itself brings doubt into the quality of some filters .

* The best thing to do is disconnect the SKY box phone connection if you don't need it .

Regards Jeff



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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2009, 04:05:45 PM »

quote 1 :The improvements were measured by just monitoring the SNRM every second, using the Netgear web interface

Trying to get meaningful results with what is in effect spot check on SNR  is VERY difficult , unless you have a very quiet line with virtually no "jitter" . Using something like routerstats helps with constant monitoring , even then the  graphical presentation has to be interpreted carefully. One great advantage is the SNR "jitter" can be observed prior to any test and the apparent GAINS/ losses can be confirmed  or not .

I'll elaborate more on how I monitored things for these tests, as it's a trick that may prove useful to anybody else with a hand-held browser (I used an IPod touch). 

The Netgear HTML 'status' page has a  button that allows refresh rate to be configured, down to one second updates.  That allows you to carry it around the house with you, and keep a beady eye on, pretty much in real-time, at the exact moment you change anything.  It's also very easy to judge if, or by how much, it's bobbing around of it's own accordsince obviously changes are irrelevant unless they're vastly greater than any such bobbing.   Routerstats has many uses, but for that scenario I found the Ipod and the plain old Netgear html interface would be hard to beat. :)

Obviously, you do need to keep an eye on thing (maybe using routerstats ;) ) for a few hours either side, in case any gains or losses evaporate as soon as you turn your back on them.

- 7LM 
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roseway

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2009, 05:17:53 PM »

The ADSL side of a filter goes 'straight through' - i.e. It's the voice that gets filtered.

Adding/removing filters shouldn't cause issues. Double-filtering can also help for SKY boxes etc. using filters from different manufacturers can also help as they may be working on slightly different frequencies.

I would plug directly into the TEST socket and record your results. Then compare other configurations with these and if they aren't as good then you know you can improve things.

The best route to take is to fit an ADSL faceplate filter - I use one from ADSLNation...

Sorry if this is 'sucking eggs'...  :)



You are of course correct to say that the ADSL connection is straight through, but the filter components are still connected to that line, and can affect its behaviour in unpredictable ways. The extreme case is the ADSLNation active filter, as used in their filtered faceplate and their plug-in filters. Because these have active components they can possibly disrupt each other's working, and I've seen a number of reports of bad results when more than one of these is connected. Passive filters are less problematical, but they still contain reactive components connected across the line, and these can resonate or load the line more at various frequencies. So it's generally good practice to use as few filters as possible.
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  Eric

BritBrat

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2009, 05:51:26 PM »

I don't know if this is any help but I noticed you are talking about jitter.

JD's Auto Speedtester will record it and other things and you could run it alongside routerstats.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 05:54:38 PM by BritBrat »
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jeffbb

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2009, 06:41:56 PM »

Hi

quote : I found the Ipod and the plain old Netgear html interface would be hard to beat.

good  tip will bear that one in mind  :)

Regards Jeff
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2009, 11:19:00 AM »

Getting back to the subject of my original post, I'm probably going to try a Solwise filtered faceplate:

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm (halfway down that page).

...unless anybody talks me out of it before I get to the electronic checkout? ???

According to the blurb, it differs from most extension-fitting (standard patress, non NTE5) faceplates that Ive seen, in that wiring to the rest of the extensions can be either filtered or unfiltered.  I don't think the ADSLNatiuon equivalent allows the former (subsequent extensions filtered), but maybe somebody will tell me if I'm wrong, or missing other choices?

That will allow me a half-way house, where I can leave the router where it is, slightly compromised by being on an extension, but optimised by getting rid of most of the interference from the rest of the extension wiring.   It also allows me to reduce the number of filters in the entire house to exactly one.

Getting back to b4dger's comment:
I would plug directly into the TEST socket and record your results. Then compare other configurations with these and if they aren't as good then you know you can improve things.

The test socket actually shows no obvious improvement, though it's difficult to be conclusive as it takes some time to unplug all the hardware and reconnect, by which time the noise levels may have drifted up or down a bit anyway.  That's why I'm loathe to use it, as it means sacrificing many coinvenience factors, such as having the router's wifi in the centre of the house, and keeping flickering lights out of the Study which occasionally doubles up as a spare bedroom.  But it still makes sense to optimise the wiring as much as possible, especially as I'm on a rather long line (56dB).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 11:22:14 AM by sevenlayermuddle »
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b4dger

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2009, 02:26:43 PM »

According to the blurb, it differs from most extension-fitting (standard patress, non NTE5) faceplates that Ive seen, in that wiring to the rest of the extensions can be either filtered or unfiltered.  I don't think the ADSLNatiuon equivalent allows the former (subsequent extensions filtered), but maybe somebody will tell me if I'm wrong, or missing other choices?

Hi, Yes the ADSLNation has both:
"IDC terminals on the rear allow connection of additional filtered and unfiltered hardwired telephone extensions."
http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php

So behind the faceplate you've got filtered/unfiltered options via IDC and from the front the same again via BT plug  and RJ11.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2009, 02:45:00 PM »

Hi, Yes the ADSLNation has both:
"IDC terminals on the rear allow connection of additional filtered and unfiltered hardwired telephone extensions."
http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php

@B4dger,
I was about to disagree because think your link is for the master faceplate, that will fit over the removable lower section of an NTE-5.  What I want is a faceplate that fits over a bog standard flat-faced 85mm patress box.  The  equivalent at ADSLNation is

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xtf.php

The wording for that differs from the XTE...
'Allows connection of telephone equipment without using separate microfilters. IDC terminals on the rear allow connection of additional hardwired telephone extensions.'

...which I found ambiguous.  On closer inspection, however, it adds...

'Ideal for people who would rather not have filters plugged in to the telephone socket or situations where equipment must be hardwired to the line such as alarm systems.'

...which I think removes the ambiguity. So yes, you're right, further extensions would be filtered as I require.

Regardless of that, I'm afraid I already got a bit trigger-happy and ordered the solwise before I saw your post.  Maybe I'll put the ADSLNation on my xmas present list and report back on whether I can find any difference in performance  between the two :)
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BritBrat

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2009, 03:24:29 PM »

Would the XTE-2005 be better?

I think it more fits my needs.


« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 03:29:24 PM by BritBrat »
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2009, 03:56:02 PM »

Would the XTE-2005 be better?

That's the same device b4dger suggested.  :)

I'm not sure what you mean by 'better', but it's not suitable for my requirements as it's designed for an nte5, which means it's the wrong shape for an 85mm flat-fronted patress box.

I'm not sure whether ADSLNation filters perform 'better' than Solwise.  I suspect that would be an emotive question that would get different answers depending on who you ask.  My expectation is that both are both pretty adequate, and one may be better on some lines, the other better on other lines.

ADSLNation has 'active' components (transistors), so it would have been interesting to try, though I've never seen a convincing technical explanation as to why it should make much difference.

- 7LM
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2009, 04:57:59 PM »

PS:  Blow the expense, I've ordered an ADLSNation filter too, else I'd have tormented myself forever woondering whether it would have made any difference.

Annoyingly, the 85mm version doesn't seem to be available, even from ADSLNation, so I've ordered the smaller one and will modify the mounting after I've tried it out, if it proves any better.
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waltergmw

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2009, 05:03:50 PM »

Given that neither ADSL Nation nor Solwise actually manufacture their products tehemselves, and that the design looks remarkably similar, it is not impossible that both firms are selling an identical but badge-engineered device. I have an ADSL Nation consignment which states the country of origin as China, although it would be possible for different filter components to be enclosed in similar designs.

Kind regards,
Walter
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Dedicated RJ11 socket
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2009, 05:28:35 PM »

it is not impossible that both firms are selling an identical but badge-engineered device.

Hi Walter,

I have mixed feelings about that...

I hope you're wrong, else I'll feel like a fool for buying the ADSLNation when I already had the other on order.
...but..
I hope you're right, as the ADSLNation one that I've ordered is going to take some butchery to make it fit my full size recessed back-box.
 ???

I'll report back in due course as to whether they have the same electronics and, if not, whether either one performs vastly superior to the other.

-7LM

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