Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jeffbb]

Hi
quote : Looking at graph which has been running since 17.28 (now 18.31) Noise margin mostly between 10 & 11 with a couple of dips down to 9+
Connection speed straight line at 1375.
A steady Connection speed graph with no breaks shows that your connection is stable.

The noise margin can be looked at as "elbow room" between the noise and the data . The normal target is 6db . Yours is higher suggesting that at some point your line as been seen as unstable . That can be caused by too many resynchs. One major effect of increased Target SNR is a loss of synch speed (connection speed). for more information see link below .
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm

one bite at a time 
Regards Jeff

[kapt69]

Hi Jeff
Have just bitten!
It's beginning to make sense - SNR margin appears to be lower now as they suggest happens in the evening. Now running 9.5 to 10 since 20.00.
This would appear to be low if I read correctly - unless on DSL Max (I know we're not on LLU - so not sure if that means we can't be on Max??)

Once your SNR Margin starts to drop below 10dB on a traditional fixed rate line then you can experience problems

ooooooerr!!
Conn speed rock steady at a gnat's doodah under 1400. - apart from when PC was turned off to eat (me not it) - hope you have a sense of humour - seems like it's necessary when you're into all this!
Will keep watching the stats - have hopefully set up for them to be saved when switch off.
Will also try to setup full stats version tomorrow - that should be fun!
Thanks for guidance
Regards
K

[sevenlayermuddle]

Once your SNR Margin starts to drop below 10dB on a traditional fixed rate line then you can experience problems

I'm not sure who you're quoting there, but I'd not worry too much for two reasons...

first, you're not on a fixed line
second, your uptime of 25 days doesn't suggest you are experiencing any problems

You connection speed will always appear steady on routerstats, except when it changes as a result of a reconnection, at which time a new speed is negotiated.   Your 9dB margin is not untypical for such a long line (63dB attenuation tells us it's a long one).  As jeff says, it probably started out at 6dB, but it can go all the way up to 15dB so 9dBs not that bad, and probably just indicates that the automatic adjustment process known as DLM (Dynamic Line Management) has been doing it's job properly.


I can see you're enjoying all this, I know it's fun.      All the same, have we moved on from your initial query as to whether Orange have been fiddling with your profile?

[HPsauce]

Once your SNR Margin starts to drop below 10dB on a traditional fixed rate line then you can experience problems

Well my target margin is a measly 3dB and my up time is: 589:36:41
Yes that's 589 hours without a resync. Well over 3 weeks.
(the router has been up for 970 hours)

[sevenlayermuddle]

Once your SNR Margin starts to drop below 10dB on a traditional fixed rate line then you can experience problems

Actually, I just realised where that quote comes from  . Hope I didn't sound critical of it? 

Seriously, I think the point is that it refers to fixed lines.

[kitz]

>> Actually, I just realised where that quote comes from

lol...   This isnt a traditional fixed rate line - which dont have target SNRs when they connect up to negotiate the sync speed.  The line will either sync, or it wont, on traditional fixed rate, which it isnt rate adaptive.  Different technology.

>> Seriously, I think the point is that it refers to fixed lines.

yep it does

>> my target margin is a measly 3dB

adsl2+ allows a minimum of 1 bit per bin to be loaded which approx equals 3dB of SNR.  
rate adaptive adsl1 requires a minimum of 2 bits per bin to be loaded which equals approx 6dB of SNR
- hence maxdsl default target SNRM being 6dB..  but why  the likes of Be using adsl2+ will let you try a 3dB target SNR - if your line is stable enough.


See bit loading

Each 3dB of SNR equates to 1 bit (of data),
A minimum of 2 bits per bin is needed for the tone to be usable for ADSL1 (6dB)
ADSL2 and ADSL 2+ support single bit tones (3dB).

[kitz]

>> Now running 9.5 to 10 since 2

Thats fine - its normal for SNRM to fluctuate in the evenings... and theres still plenty to go at.
Choice of router can make a big difference too.
Some Belkins, Zooms & Zyxels can start to complain when it drops below 6dB...  but you have a decent ( Netgear) router.. and its one of those known to hang on well to low SNRs.

[kapt69]

Hi Folks
Thanks again for 'hanging in there' with advice.
Have just done another speedtest (BT) and dwnld speed 939kbs;Dsl Conn rate 1376; IP Profile STILL 1000kbps!!!
Which very neatly(!) brings me to Sevenlayermuddle's fair point of: am I straying away from the original concern that IP Profile is being fiddled/altered/massaged - whatever term you care to apply.
I am finding all this interesting - but you lot are probably fed up with such basics - so - before you give up - what do you suggest. I'm happy to take advice.
Would it be best to see how speed/profile continues for a few days/weeks??
I don't want to lose contact with such helpful people (know that's a little selfish as your time has to be limited and there are people presumably coming on all the time with their individual problems), but don't want to string this thread (is that a mixed metaphor?) out unnecessarily.
Here I would welcome some non- ADSL advice as to how to 'behave' in forums (fora?) - which, as you can probably tell, are rather new to me.
Cheers
K

[tuftedduck]

@ kapt69

>>I don't want to lose contact with such helpful people<<............easily achieved, just come back and visit..

>>Here I would welcome some non- ADSL advice as to how to 'behave' in forums<<...........your behaviour is impeccable, carry on as you are doing..

The techies will be along soon to continue the good work.. :clap2:

[sevenlayermuddle]

Hi Folks
 IP Profile STILL 1000kbps!!!

That's exactly what you'd expect for a speed between 1152 and 1408. Also, a download speed slightly less than your IP profile is normal. Once in a while it may be a lot less if the network's heavily congested, but if it's always a lot less then the adequacy of the ISP comes under suspicion.

Please do keep this thread going, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.   It's certainly of interest and if it turns out, beyond doubt, that Orange really are fiddling with the profile (via EUSC) then I think many of us will be fascinated to hear it.

In the interest of proving or disproving that, I'd be inclined to use routerstats - as Jeff suggested - to prove that the connection's as stable as we think it is (the evidence so far supports that).  And keep an eye on your profile too, if your profile ever drops without a reconnection (at slower speed) then Orange are probably to blame.

We haven't really discussed one issue... that's FUP (fair usage policy), which may be one reason for Orange to fiddle.  Would you say you were a big downloader?

[kapt69]

Hi Seven (is it OK to shorten?)
Sorry for delay - have had to get some things done outside before it carries on with the usual downpour - again.
Do i download a lot? - I don't think so. I don't download music or films.
Most of the time I spend watching a few items on eBay ( ) or 'surf' the web I think is the phrase. Often trying to find answers to various problems life throws (like IP profiles mysteriously reducing! or even more entertaining toilet siphons ceasing to work - yep that certainly was entertaining!!)
No seriously I guess my use is no more than average and very possibly less.
I will have a look at the full version of routerstats tomorrow as I didn't get a chance today.
Could you clarify 'keep the thread going'? - as I say I've never really done this - don't be afraid to tell me exactly what you think I should do now. I can keep watching the stats - fine. If anything changes (a lot) do I just post another message? Don't these things 'die' after a while? You folks can't watch every thread that starts up or you'ld never have time for anything!
Cheers
K

[tuftedduck]

>>>Could you clarify 'keep the thread going<<<<

Just keep posting your questions and looking at the responses....until the issues and problems you have are resolved.

There is no space or time restrictions on threads, and if one member cannot visit to answers the queries, another will take up the reins.

Remember, too, that other members may have the same or similar problems to yourself and could well be watching this thread with interest although not posting in it.

Don't worry about anything, keep posting and the techs. will keep responding. 

[sevenlayermuddle]

Hi Seven (is it OK to shorten?)
Do i download a lot? - I don't think so. I don't download music or films.

That makes it unlikely that Orange were penalising you for excessive usage, which makes it all the more intriguing (for other forum members as well as you) if they were throttling your traffic.  But don't feel compelled to keep posting after you feel it's done & dusted, I just wanted to reassure that as far as I'm concerned (and I suspect the others too) I'm still enjoying the thread

You can add a post as late as you like.  I don't know how others use the forum, but one technique is to scan the list of recent posts every time I log in.  Even if you added a post after a gap of several months, I'm sure it would still get spotted.

I'm not sure whether I feel sorry for you re these downpours.  It's been a nice dry & mostly sunny day here, so I' was unable to find an excuse not to clean all the outside windows, upstairs and down, despite being terrified of ladders.   I think I'm still trembling at the knees. 

[kapt69]

SLM
hope you're over the knee trembler - used to mean something else! depends how old you are I guess. - think it used to be fun - can't really remember!
Have now downloaded full Routerstats. I also did the Telnet thingy - but haven't a clue if I should have - just followed the video advice re setup - so hope it's not doing anything weird.
Last night (I think it was) I noticed conn. speed had dropped from previous 1376 to 1216. (BUT IP profile this am still 1000)
I remember being told the speed wouldn't alter unless router had to reconnect?
As router is always on (PC (when I get it back) & laptop, obviously are switched off from time to time!) does this mean there has been a problem?
Whilst asking - is noise margin better to be higher or lower?

[sevenlayermuddle]

Hi Again,

The higher your noise margin, the more stable will be your connection and in that respect a high margin's a good thing.  But also, the higher your noise margin the lower will be your connection speed, so it's really a trade-off act between speed and stability.

Each time you connect, the BT exchange equipment tells your router what noise margin it should use (the 'target' margin) and the router then chooses a speed that's achievable with the required target margin.   Over time, as interference comes and goes, you'll see the noise margin fall and rise, while the conection speed remains constant.  If the margin ever gets close to zero, the router will be unable to sustain the connection and so will reconnect at a slower speed, to gain back the noise margin.   I'm sure I'm trying to explain what kitz has already done, much better than me, so have a read of Kitz's descriiptions and, in case of doubt, believe Kitz and not me   

It sounds like you did reconnect at some point.  If that's only once in 25 days then it's probably nothing to worry about.  It's difficult to speculate what caused it.  It may have been anything from your line being swamped with interference, to the cleaners at the exchange unplugging a DSLAM so they had somewhere to plug in their vacuum cleaner.  Only joking (or I hope so anyway) 

If you're worried about the reconnects, I would keep an eye on routerstats graphs.  But to be honest I'm not that au-fait with routerstats, so I'll leave it to Jeff and the others to help you out on that front...