Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!  (Read 5545 times)

Luther

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« on: September 16, 2009, 09:16:51 AM »

Hi,

I'm after some advice on selecting an ADSL router with a strong signal (for a 3 floor house) that will support G & N clients and also work with ADSL2+.

There is a little background to my request - about general connection problems - that may have a bearing on any advice you give!

To elaborate in the past few weeks my connection has been dropping - up to a few times a day - and I have not been able to work out whether the problem has been caused by hardware or my phone link to the exchange.

The key points are:
- My old router (Netgear DG834G) started dropping my connection
- I ruled out all possible issues relating to my internal phone wiring by connecting the router directly into the test socket (did not fix the problem)
- I tried a different router (a Belkin N+ F5D8635uk4A but it still dropped the connection and did not work reliably ("limited connectivity" errors) with a couple of laptops
- I tried another router (a Linksys Cisco WAG160N) which also dropped the connection although it did work perfectly will all my wireless kit
- I finally tried yet another router (a Netgear DGN2000) and that has maintained the connection but the signal is not quite strong enough for the whole house!

So I think I would like to replace my router (again!) with another one that is going to be strong enough to cover the whole house. While investigating this issue my research has led me to look at modem chipsets and I am wondering whether my phone line is better suited to some chipsets than others. I understand that the Netgear has a Broadcom chipset and that they are particularly well regarded. However I believe that the Linksys I tried also has a Broadcom chipset so am puzzled as to why that did not work.

Another point to consider is that I currently have an ADSL Max connection but would like to upgrade to an ADSL2+ service imminently. I am wondering whether I should bear that in mind - and in particularly the ISP I select from the options on my LSWAN exchange - as I choose my modem just in case the chipset is not well suited to the new ISP's equipment.

Any advice as to options for new routers, or alternative steps I should consider, would be much appreciated!
Logged

GunJack

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2009, 10:03:24 AM »

I've got a 3-storey house, and I have no problems with my D-Link 2640B. It's on the ground floor, and no probs on the top floor on the kid's vintage IBM Thinkpads or my Advent lappy.

Only thing it doesn't do in N, but they do a 2740 model that's N compatable, and there are versions of DMT tool which work with it.

Other peeps will probably recommend Billion at the moment, they seem to be popular at present. Although, I'm suprised that the Netgear's giving you problems, unless you've just worn it out ;)

Might be an idea to post your line stats so some of the other guys can advise better....more info's always better than less :)

p.s. looking at the availability on your exchange, I recon most peeps on here would advise to look at O2/Be or Sky/Easynet for an LLU ISP on ADSL2+....
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 10:06:01 AM by GunJack »
Logged
8)..........Gettin' There, Wherever There is..........8)

HPsauce

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2464
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2009, 10:40:15 AM »

I'd recommend buying a suitable Wireless Access Point and keeping the router for now if it works OK otherwise.
What exact version of the DG834G is it and what ISP are you on?
Have you updated to the latest firmware and/or DGTeam firmware if available for your model?
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 32003
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2009, 11:21:56 AM »

Just to clarify a point.
When you say dropping the connection do you mean the wireless connection.. or the actual adsl line drops out.

A wireless router contains 2 different chipsets (adsl & wireless) and both are able to lose the connection independently.

If you have found a router that works well with the line (such as the Netgear DGN2000)..  have you perhaps considered using home networking plugs for some areas around the house where the wireless signal is weak. Theres various makes and models available.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

Luther

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2009, 12:06:44 PM »

Thank you for your replies.

To clarify the DG834G doesn't seem to work any more - I guess it has worn out after many years of solid service - and so I am no longer using it.

I am currently using the DGN2000 and while that holds the connection ok it lacks the signal strength to get all the way to the top of the house.

I suppose my dilemma is whether or not to keep it (using another approach to extend its signal) or replace it with something with a longer range.

When I talk about the connection dropping I am referring to the ADSL connection and not the wireless one, and my ISP is UKFSN (who resell Entanet).

I will post my line stats up later as I suspect there have been underlying phone line issues and would be interested in your expert opinions.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 02:09:36 PM by Luther »
Logged

Azzaka

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 572
  • SysAdmin
    • A Designers Work in Progress
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2009, 02:17:20 PM »

G'Day Mate,

There is a new Firmware coming out for the DN2000 which should increase the sync speed and the wireless signal. If this doesnt work then try a wireless repeater on the second floor.

Update: The new firmware has actually been released and can be found here: http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/11948
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 02:29:57 PM by Azzaka »
Logged
I Sync', I Auth', therefore I am.
Online

Luther

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2009, 08:07:01 PM »

Thanks Azzaka. I'll have a look at that.

Here are my stats (taken from the router's debug mode)... Hopefully they are meaningful!

adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 0
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 448 Kbps, Downstream rate = 5408 Kbps
Link Power State: L0

Mode:                 G.DMT
Channel:             Interleave
Trellis:                 ON
Line Status:        No Defect
Training Status:  Showtime

                      Down            Up
SNR (dB):       15.2              22.0
Attn(dB):        31.0             15.0
Pwr(dBm):      19.8             11.0
Max(Kbps):     5920            1120
Rate (Kbps):   5408            448

                        G.dmt framing
K:                  170(0)           15
R:                  12                 16
S:                  1                   8
D:                  32                 4

                        ADSL2 framing
MSGc:            1               1
B:                  170            15
M:                 1                8
T:                  1                1
R:                  12              16
S:                  1.0701       9.0000
L:                  1368          128
D:                  32              4

                        Counters
SF:             5394664         5394683
SFErr:         0                    0
RS:             366837182    45853802
RSCorr:       384               14
RSUnCorr:   0                   0

HEC:              0                     0
OCD:              0                     0
LCD:               0                     0
Total Cells:    1169726446    0
Data Cells:     12651827       0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:      0                      0

ES:             0                0
SES:           0                0
UAS:           19              0
AS:             91709

INP:           1.12             2.00
PER:           1.87             1.96
delay:         8.56            9.00
OR:             29.90           28.44

Bitswap:        0               0
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 32003
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2009, 11:20:13 PM »

I think I'd be tempted to stick with the DGN2000 as it has the same adsl broadcom chipset as the much favoured DG834GT... and as youve already mentioned it seems to work well on the line.

Your stats look fine..  the SNRM is a bit high, but that is likely due to the Target SNR.  I dont know how long the line has been up for but judging by the SuperFrames v the SuperFrame Errors it looks good.
Sync rate is lower than anticipated, but again that is likely the high target SNR.
Have you checked all internal wiring?

For the wireless aspect it uses wireless-N, so possibly about the best you could get from Netgear...  so therefore if it was my kit I'd either be looking at something just to extend the wireless aspect... either via wireless repeater or the homeplugs.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

Luther

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2009, 11:28:29 AM »

Thanks again.

The internal wiring is all fine (and in fact the router is currently plugged straight into the BT test socket).

Those stats were taken about a day or so after a router reboot so that may explain the error stats.

I'll think through the best way to extend the signal as I understand that using a repeater reduces/halves the wireless bandwidth and I have networked music device that can operate wirelessly (although it's currently connected via ethernet).

I may articulate my thinking on here to check it's ok so I can benefit from your wise advice once again.  :)
Logged

HPsauce

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2464
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2009, 01:18:33 PM »

Yes, ideally you want another base station connected via ethernet.
Homeplugs can achieve that if you can't run a physical cable, though you'd be surprised what you can achieve with a bit of thought.  ;)
Logged

Luther

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2009, 08:21:39 PM »

So, here is my summary of what I'm trying to do, and my understanding of the issues to consider. I'd be grateful for comments.

Firstly, here's a rough map of my network:

Desktop             Home/music server             Music player                  Laptop                Laptop
(Gigabit wired)           (Gigabit wired)                           (Ethernet wired)                    (Wireless G)               (Wireless N)
     |                            |                                         |
     |                            |                                         |
     ------- Switch -------                                          |
               (Gigabit)                                                     |
                    |                                                       |
                    |                                                       |
               Modem ----------------------------------------
               (Ethernet)
                    |
                    |
               Phone

Now, depending on how I extend the range of my wireless signal, I may need to consider the bandwidth.

These are the important points that will affect my network design:
  • The Music Player is a Squeezebox and I mostly play back music in FLAC format (up to 30 MB for a 5 minute song)
  • In future I may want to play music wirelessly (using the player's 802.11G interface) and if so I'd need good transfer rates to avoid dropouts
  • I think that the recommended transfer rate is between 1 MBps and 2 MBps (depending on the file's bit-rate)
  • At any one time there could also be another 3 laptops using the wireless network

My (basic) understanding of the relevant speeds is:
  • An 802.11G wireless network in theory transfers at 54 MBps but actually tends to transfer at about half that speed i.e. 27 MBps
  • Distance from the access point will reduce that further so perhaps the speed could drop to around 10 to 15 Mbps
  • If I were to use a repeater that would split the wireless network again thereby taking transfer speeds down to e.g. 5 to 7.5 MBps
  • That bandwidth could theoretically be wholly consumed by the laptops saturating the ADSL Max connection e.g. using 6 MBps
  • In the scenario the laptops would not download as fast as they could and of course the music streaming would not be feasible

So, some preliminary conclusions might be:
  • I should probably only use a repeater if it is close to the original base access point (so can maintain a high transfer rate)
  • A homeplug (assuming it doesn't affect the original network's transfer rate) may be a better idea

That's my reasoning for now... I obviously need to think some more, but any comments welcome for now!
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 32003
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: Advice on ADSL2+ modem with strong signal!
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2009, 01:27:41 PM »

Just had a thought.
You say the DGN2000 works best on the line
The WAG160N works best for the wireless and you were happy with its wireless connectivity... just not the adsl.

Why dont you combine them and get the best out of each.
You can turn off wireless on the netgear - use this as the adsl modem and let the Linksys work as the Wireless AP.

The Linksys can either be plugged in to the back of the Netgear.. or the back of the Gigabit switch, depending upon which is best location wise for signal stregth.  In fact you could position it more or less anywhere for the best signal using a run of CAT5 cable.

Turn DHCP off on either the Netgear or Linksys.. doesnt matter which as long as you do on one of them, and ensure that any PCs connected to the other are assigned static IPs.  Just ensure the 2 routers are assigned IPs in the same subnet range.

It wont cost you anything to at least give it a go.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker