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Author Topic: The REIN it REINeth every day !  (Read 15274 times)

general disquiet

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2009, 04:45:44 PM »

@Ezzer - picked up the fence from 100 metres away with my little Sony Walkman radio, tuned to 612 MHz with no aerial mods.  Just to add to the excitement, they have another mains-powered fence a little further from the telephone and power lines which has greenery touching it along its entire length.

Spoke to the landowner this afternoon who, whilst 'sympathetic,' is clearly not interested in anything that might cost them money - even down to ensuring the fences are not shorting out.  I can sort of understand their predicament,  old fences cost a fortune to replace, a cheap-n-cheerful electric fence is a much cheaper alternative.   

Unfortunately, they have a capped 512kbps connection which is running at just over 400kbps and that is clearly enough for their needs - so no incentive from the possibility of faster broadband there either.

So, even if we can prove this is causing a problem, I'm not sure we can get anything done about it. 

Oh yes, with the aerial you suggested, are both ends plugged into the aerial socket, or just one?
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Ezzer

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2009, 10:57:24 AM »

If it can be proved the electric fencing is the cause then legally the owners will have to do something about it

The aerial I was refering to is this type http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=859 as its the typical aerial in a mw radio. it would be positioned horizontaly within the radio

Sounds as if you have a traditional loop antennea without the ferrite core. the core changed the dynamics of the antennea so a smaller loop anbe used and so more compact. so both ends of the wire best be connected
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general disquiet

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2009, 03:50:12 PM »

@Ezzer.

Thanks for the details.  I took screwdriver to radio and that is the sort of aerial my little one is fitted with - which I guess accounts for the variation in signal strength when you waggle it and turn it.  I guess even though I can pick up a transmission near the line of the BT cable, I need to try and persuade BT to see if they can hear it on their cable - and I suspect that is easier said than done.
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orainsear

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2009, 06:58:22 PM »

Do you think that the owners might agree to turning the fences off for a short while so you can check whether the clicking noise does cease when the fences are inactive?
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coolsnakeman

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2009, 07:53:12 PM »

Maybe reasoning with the owners about this fence isn't going to do you any good. So if you are able to prove its this fence causing the noise then the only other option would be to put your wolly mask on get yourself a trackter and drive over the top of the fence lol. If it is there fence then legally they have to do something about it and put cost into getting it replaced otherwise they will be forced to do so anyway. Ezzer i think you should never be tasked near any farm fields EVER again cause you just seem to get yourself into bother when you are  :lol:
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Ezzer

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2009, 08:59:57 PM »

farmers field are unavoidable, but that one occasion I'll certainly remember. It was fasinating to watch Gryff Rees-Jones on the latest Rivers program. Seeing him going into Ranworth church (the offending field is the one between the church and ranworth broad) and seeing him negotiate the bridge at Potter heigham, he made it look easy.The exchange for there is an interesting one, have to open a gate toa house and drive up their driveway to access the "shed". http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00mbv0c/b00mbtxj/Rivers_with_Griff_Rhys_Jones_East/

When looking for REIN iniataly you do have to swing the radio at 90 degrees horiziontaly and verticaly due to the way the antennea picks up signals. If a lenght of wire emmits a signal imagine the signal being emmited like rings around the wire. now imagine the line of the ring passing through the lenght of the ferrite core of the reciving aerial, thats when its at its most sensitive.By turning the volumeof the radio down and then reorientating the radio allows you to pinpoint the source. If ever you see someone with a C.A.T. tracking underground cables before any excavation work the bottom of the C.A.T. has a cylindrical bulge.this has the same type antennea to locate an underground cable in the same way your trying to locate the source of REINhttp://www.essentialwaterservices.co.uk/cat.html

This is the manual for the type I use, the basics are very similar http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0125/0900766b80125b30.pdf
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 09:03:09 PM by Ezzer »
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general disquiet

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2009, 09:24:55 PM »

That was a good programme and enjoyed it immensely - would've enjoyed it even more if I'd known it was Ezzer's field!

Absolutely no doubt that it is the fence causing the clicking noise, as the the connecting clamp 'accidentally' came adrift for a few seconds - the clicking stopped!   It also gets fainter, the further you are away from the fence.  In line of sight, I can pick it up at 100m.  With an earth bank in between it is only detectable from 20m away.

Anyone have any good horse recipes?
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Ezzer

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2009, 10:06:10 PM »

If its just clicking then I'll be less suspisious of it causing the dsl problems and yes it would be the fence. the clicking is often audible at lower frequencies so in rural areas hearing a slow click like a heartbeat over the phone line is common

I think of the other feild next to the church as my friends field as thats where the camp for the wedding reception was. I went back to the boat as I could put the cooker on to get some heat. another friend came along to occupy the other birth, same side as he cooker. Unfortunately he stretched out in the night and I was woken by his yelps of pain. the cooker was at the end of his bed. I've heard of cooked sole but only the fish version before.

The journey there was eventfull. We had borrowed the boat several times before. we thought it would be a good way to get to the wedding. My friend who burnt his foot drove to the village (almost killing us on the way, phew!)

We stopped at his mums house where I heard a dog approching in the back garden as I could hear the sound of claws on the paving. It wasn't a dog,it was his brother, whonever cuts his toe nails  :sick: I wish this bit was a joke but it's not, unbeliveable.

So theres 5 of us on this boat having a great time chugging along on our way to the church.The chap to whomthe boat belongs was given it ( :'(I want one) and has hardly used it. so half way "Uh oh!" "where are you steering were headding straight for that boat" "no streering, the wheels gone loose!" we finaly crash into the enbankment; "so where's the toolbox"......"you're joking". had to find a screwdriver or something close to, whats the only thing avalable? Would you belive a set of nail clippers, guess who's :sick: I just had to keep telling my self well he never uses them.

Half lashed a makeshift link to the rudder so we could make it to a private jetty to further the repair, chap comes along shouting  "this is private you can't moor here...oh hello Ch....." he and his daughter knows the one with the soon to be singed foot so I go up to to house looking for a few spanners and hopefully some thing to wipe the chain grease off my hands as there now blue as thats the only way we could steer. As the're helpuffully looking for some tools her cat comes out. Now i have a way with cats and it was very friendly. So as i looked to see the progress of wheres the tool box I was stroking her white cat,yes a white cat, or at least it was before I realised  :-[ don'tthink they spotted the fur stuck to the grease on the palm of my hand
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general disquiet

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2009, 08:23:14 PM »

So, if the regular pulses aren't the problem, what should I be listening for?  I can see myself hanging round the fields in the wee small hours, so I'd like to have some idea!
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waltergmw

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2009, 09:42:33 PM »

Hi General,

I think it's quite possible that some broadband lines could be affected by the fences but if the local users aren't worried so perhaps you shouldn't be either?
In any event the ticking will probably be causing a continuous low-level problem and possibly a larger problem when the vegetation is soaking wet.
The major short-term spikes would seem to be far more of a problem as they seem to affect others much more seriously.

Kind regards,
Walter

P S Ezzer is doing very well as a comedian so perhaps that's better than his day job ? !!!!!!
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general disquiet

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2009, 10:27:34 PM »

Well rain is forecast for the next couple of days - we'll see if the REIN gets worse - and if the fences are shorting to earth.  As I am one of the 'local' users - actually nearer to the fence than the owner of the thing, I am very definitely worried about it, his other two fences and the three fences equidistant from us.  If they are all putting a signal onto the line, I can't see how it can do anything other than cause problems.

As for Ezzer, I'd like to hear him do a new voice-over for the 'Rivers' programme!
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Ezzer

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2009, 11:55:25 PM »

Thinking about a book. I could write one about the trip to the emirates cup for last year alone. Then There's the story about taking a twinkle on the boat at night involving my exlodger, oh the time he set himself on fire by sleeping with lit candles, with the following hospital trip, and his wifes following discovery. the evil trick done with a bottle of larger and beetroot juice,oh talking of evil tricks marzipan with batteries and a few wires to get rid of squatters from a friends house. the moles and the football, oh god! I think i do have enough for a book.  :-[ Oh just remembered the one about the cayenne pepper,the milk bottles and the burning caravan :-X

 :blush: Your normaly looking for a constant noise  :-X
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general disquiet

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2009, 09:52:56 PM »

@waltergmw

Pleased I listened and replaced  the Netgear DG834PN with the 2-Wire.  I immediately got a 15% increase in sync speed and 3 days later, I've got an increase in the IP profile from 1250kbps to 1500kbps.  That may not seem much to those on a  reasonable speed, but trust me, it makes a helluva difference doing even basic things like web-browsing.

Interestingly, the IP profile recovered, despite me turning off the router for 3 hours every night to try and miss the major REIN event.   I don't believe the router will hold sync long enough for the SNR target to drop, but I can dream!
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waltergmw

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2009, 09:09:56 AM »

@ The general,

That's good news re your broadband speed but it doesn't solve the REIN problem.
As you have now proven that there is a widespread effect affecting a number of broadband users, I wonder if you should be tackling Ofcom's ex Radiocommunications Agency staff?
Given that the military might well be involved, or could themselves be affected by the noise events, a suitable official approach and a request to access their test equipment might help solve the problem ?

Kind regards,
Walter

P.S. Don't forget to check the water towers carefully.
P.P.S. As you've got a number of local village web sites why not circulate them all asking if others can also observe the spike so you might then draw a coverage diagram.
Anquet software would then let you define a number common of high ground areas.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 09:29:23 AM by waltergmw »
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general disquiet

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Re: The REIN it REINeth every day !
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2009, 04:24:26 PM »

@ waltergmw

I like the Ofcom idea, although I had already raised the issue with Ofcom in general terms with no success.  However, your idea is much more specific, so I will follow it up.

Our immediate neighbouring villages  do not seem to suffer the same problem, but at least one of them has fibre to the exchange and good copper, so may not be likely to see it anyway. 

I've got the Anquet software now and am sorting out the mapping this weekend when I've got some time.  I've checked the towers v carefully now, but cannot see anything out of place, odd aerials, boxes etc.  When I have time and the harvest is over, I hope to have a much more detailed look and chat to the site manager.
 
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