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[waltergmw]

Hi everybody, especially Ezzer,

We've got a lot of "horsey-culture" around here and acres of paddocks all divided with electric fences.
I.e. lots of high voltage spikes and dI / dT every second or so and an antenna system to beat the BBC !
BT have recently discovered a major noise source where the clicking can be heard at the green cabinet over 2 km away.
Sadly they are trying to mask the problem with filters rather than tackling the owners of the said fencing.

Is anybody aware of a suitable device to clamp on the the high voltage power source or are there any such devices which are better protected against Electrical Impulse Noise transmission which is far from random !

Kind regards,
Walter

[HPsauce]

Copper cable is good (short circuit) 

[Ezzer]

you can get clip on ferrite rings to go around and wires emmiting noise. You'll see them on things like your monitor cable if your using a pc, that inoccuous small cylinder thing on the cable part way along.

The're avalable from such places as maplins.

One word of warning. Earlyer this year i found out the hard way the current for electric horse fencing......... (suddenly imagined a version of the film tron with 2 mares fencing with glowing foils )

is notably stronger than that of pig fencing..........  (me and my imagination )

Pig fencing would give you a bit of a start, the horse stuff

I was carrying a ladder between the fence and a thick crop of nasty stingy pointy weed,plant type stuff. My back side touched the fence and I couldnt stop my self from jumping into the nasty stuff. My bum cheek smarted from that for hours (ok, stop that you lot it wasn't that funny) the next day I put on waterproofs, the hoist guys found my tale of woe tear jearking (with hysterics )

Mind you the day went worse as i jumped over a barbed wire fence taking care not to injure myself further. trying to land on what looked like a bit of grass bridging a dyke. It was grassy on the top but it wasn't solid earth underneath. when my feet made contact they carried on going up to my knees. Horse field, a dyke filled with something which turns out to be soft warm and smelly . Customer said "oh you can come in" "trust me on this one, you really don't want me to"
 

[waltergmw]

@ezzer,

I must admit that your vivid descriptions of events you clearly remember well did make me smile !

I'm a bit puzzled by your comments on radio as I often find at least tone 46 knocked out which I think is around 198 kHz.

I've also just found this long electric fence REIN link on the other side:-

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/btsupplier/f/3393473-rein-problems-who-fixes.html?vc=1

It seems the first thing we should do is to cut down any vegitation touching the electric fences.

Kind regards,
Walter

[general disquiet]

I just wish there was a way of DF-ing REIN events that might only last a few milliseconds and only occur once a day.  Here's a RouterStats record of a typical event.




and to add to the bitloading debate - for me. this is a good one!




I'd value any thoughts Ezzer might have. 

[silversurfer44]

Won't Fibre To The Cabinet stop a lot of this? We are all getting aren't we?

[Ezzer]

I remember  a REIN fault where the event only lasts  2 seconds. How are you supposed to be able to locate the source  in that time is beyond me. the only reason I guessed what the cause was is that the problem only started when they changed the ups through which the router was connected. Eventualy they relented and tried the router away from the ups, problem gone

And Walter Ohh I certainly remember that one in detail. A friends father used to live in the house in question. A bunch of us went there by boat to our friends wedding (his father was the local vicar) and theres several stories I can repeat (and one I cannot) about that day. then getting zapped by that fence earlyer this year and going home smelling of horse manure. I've had a few nice comments about my anecdotes so I'll keep comming up with them while i've still got some

[orainsear]

Just don't try and relieve yourself anywhere near an electric fence 

Here is a leaflet that may be of some use in tracking down the fault.  It would seem that the Australians and New Zealanders have a fair bit of experience with this type of thing!

[roseway]

>> Just don't try and relieve yourself anywhere near an electric fence

Ouch!

[general disquiet]

@orainsear:  many thanks for the link to the leaflet - makes interesting reading - but what I desperately need, as waltergmw knows, is a simple and inexpensive way of recording what is going on, on power and phone lines and being able to leave this with folks around the area for a couple of days to build up a picture of when and how the REIN strikes and how strong the effects are at any given location.

A spare Hawk might be nice!

[waltergmw]

Attention all Gurus and especially @Kitz and Ezzer,

The General's problem could well be quite a challenge for us all.

Unless somebody has a lot of experience with scanners and their data capture it seems that we should obtain say at least three identical modems hooked up to laptops with plenty of disk storage and all configured into a logmein account so they can all be remotely accessed. We need powerful modems which can record at a high frequency perhaps with Routerstats lite to reduce the modem processor load ?

The next part of the plan is Ezzer's area. I've discovered, acording to SamKnows that, although all phone numbers are in the 01980 area, Winterbourne Stoke is part of the Shrewton Exchange and Enford is part of the Netheravon exchange yet they BOTH pick up the same REIN ? The Netheravon exchange is almost due south of Enford on the road down to the East-West A303. I suppose this might be the start of locating the transmitter's position? Can Ezzer confirm that it's unlikely that two exchanges would transmit REIN between them ? If so then we have a powerful transmitter capable of infecting presumably overhead lines running several miles apart?

The plot thickens !

Kind regards,
Walter

[orainsear]

is a simple and inexpensive way of recording what is going on, on power and phone lines

As walter suggests using a modem/laptop combination would certainly work to monitor the phone lines.  To monitor the electrical lines you'd need a power analyser with data logging capability, and unfortunately these are not particularly cheap.

If you were able to locate the offending signal with a scanner it may well be possible to triangulate the source.

[waltergmw]

Gentlefolk,

I suggest this is not a Rein (Random) problem but one on intermittent but repeating cycles. Whilst high voltage transmission lines are therfore unlikely to be the immediate cause directly through electrical discharges, but they could just possibly be involved as an antenna system from the propagator. However surely the power supplies and modems would be unlikely to act in identical ways to produce similar noise drop patterns over large tracts of the countryside ? Thus phone line noise injection seems the more likely source ?

As well as the possible sources listed by the General, water towers are often used for both telemetry systems and cellular stations.

Kind regards,
Walter

[roseway]

Sorry if I sound argumentative Walter, but REIN is Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise. It's characterised by repeated sharp noise spikes, as opposed to random noise which meanders up and down.

[waltergmw]

@ Roseway,

Sorry, my semantics are wrong - the point I was trying to make was that it does appear that there is some sort of an intermittent pattern but not one would associate with electrical discharge from power lines which would e.g. be unlikely to stop for the week ends.

Kind regards,
Walter