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Author Topic: Testing or replacing hard drives  (Read 9355 times)

tonyappuk

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Testing or replacing hard drives
« on: August 12, 2009, 12:13:12 AM »

This is just a cry of anguish really but there may be something here to serve as an early warning to others.

Becoming ever more conscious that my main operating system files (XP I'm afraid Eric. I still can't wean myself away to Linux!) are vulnerable to drive failure or virus problems, and so I bought another 160GB drive on EBay intending to use it to clone the C: partition. Whilst waiting for the new drive to appear I got on with composing my retirement association Newsletter - 32 pages of pensioner related information, funnies and, inevitably, death notices.

The new drive arrived and I thought I'd better test it immediately. The Newsletter was 80% finished at this time and in the ensuing unplugging and replugging of drive cables I managed to plug the data cable (IDE) into a drive 180 degrees out of correct orientation. The PC refused to boot and what's more the fans wouldn't power up from the  front panel"on" switch. The power supply seemed OK when powered out of the case but it was still a possible cause.

The net result was a new mother board bundle (inc processor, fan and memory), a new power supply (just in case) and a PCI IDE expansion card because modern motherboards only have a single IDE socket and I normally run three drives. This cost about £180. Then followed the usual prolonged XP re-install that I had hoped to avoid by cloning but had managed to cause.

The lessons learned are that firstly it is very easy to force a data cable into an IDE drive the wrong way round. It is keyed so it shouldn't be possible and in any case I should have looked for the red marker on the ribbon cable. Secondly despite what my friendly PC builder told me i.e. that misplugging would not cause any damage because all the pins are buffered, in this case it did, and it was quite expensive. (The CPU, fan and memory are probably OK but a bundle was the quickest and surest way to fix it)

Since I can power the damaged drive up with no nasty noises but the system says it has failed, I'm now looking for another Samsung 160GB IDE drive type SV1604/MBP so I can swap the interface/driver board on the drives and get back my email history, address book, etc. I have that information backed up until June 2008 when I built my latest system and forgot to change the back up batch file with regard to the new installation of Outlook Express. Damn! Has anyone got a drive like this they can sell me, please? Luckily all my data was safe on another  drive and after reinstalling XP, Office and Publisher I finished the job.

After being retired for 20 years , intensive fault finding and maintenance are no longer the joy they were in my youth!
Tony



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roseway

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 07:12:43 AM »

You have my sympathy, but I don't know any way to help. Like your friendly PC builder, I'm very surprised that connecting the IDE cable the wrong way round caused damage; I've done it a number of times over the years without any ill effect. I do have a Samsung SpinPoint SV2044D which you're welcome to have - it might just possibly have the same interface board. I could try to take a photo of the board and send it to you.
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  Eric

BritBrat

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2009, 09:02:40 AM »

I would not have thought pluging data cable in the wrong way around would do any harm.

I have done the same thing with the power cable and that does do harm and again it should not be possible as they are keyed.

I am not sure what exact possition you are in but I have known people remove the platters from one drive to another to get the data off, but this is not for the faint hearted.
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HPsauce

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 09:48:12 AM »

Like others, I'm surprised at the outcome.
A few things I've found over the years that may help:

1. A damaged IDE motherboard port is often limited to just one. On older boards there are (as you've noted) usually two so it's always worth checking them both. Sometimes I've found damaged ones that will not support a hard drive but will manage a CD-ROM so a quick BIOS reconfigure makes it useable (maybe with limitations).

2. Damaged IDE hard drives will often work as a slave even if not as master or CS, so try a master/slave setup.

3. There are various low-level copy utilities around that again can access and copy data from an otherwise pretty unuseable unit. I've used HDclone for example with considerable success on apparently "dead" IDE drives.

4. If you can physically copy the drive do so, and do any repair/recovery/data extraction work on the copy. Keep use of the damaged drive to an absolute minimum.

Finally, in my view, if you can't physically copy the drive, and really do want the data, send it off to the professionals. Dismantling it, other than in a profesional "clean room" laboratory will almost inevitably destroy it.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 09:50:21 AM by HPsauce »
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oldfogy

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 10:45:38 AM »

This is just a cry of anguish really but there may be something here to serve as an early warning to others.

Becoming ever more conscious that my main operating system files (XP I'm afraid Eric. I still can't wean myself away to Linux!) are vulnerable to drive failure or virus problems, and so I bought another 160GB drive on EBay ......

As for connecting the IDE cable the wrong way round, like others I also have done this on several occasions without any problem, so I would be inclined to say "that was not the problem"
(Not all cable connectors are fitted with the lug to stop them being inserted the wrong way round)

My initial thoughts would be the source of where you purchased the drive.
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tonyappuk

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 01:03:35 PM »

Thanks everyone for your comments. It's interesting that everybody agrees that misplugging shouldn't cause problems. I was pretty sure I had done it myself previously with no harm done. I'm sure the motherboard is kaput - the front panel "on" switch must go through at least a bistable to latch on, which is maybe in the CPU or in one of the bits of circuitry outside the CPU but it fails to do its stuff. The "failed" drive is jumpered as a master so I will try it as a "cable select" and see if I can retrieve any data, in particular my emails and addresses. Thanks for that, HPSauce.  Eric if you can send a pic of the PCB on your Samsung drive I would be grateful. I have treated my new installation with kid gloves since fixing it but now the Newsletter has gone to the printers I really should pluck up courage and do some more investigating. Many thanks to you all for your interest.
Tony
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oldfogy

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 01:23:03 PM »


The "failed" drive is jumpered as a master so I will try it as a "cable select" and see if I can retrieve any data,

Try the jumper set as "Slave" first, as this is the most commonly used setup.
(Although no damage will occur if the wrong selection is made)

When using "Slave" it does not matter which of the two connections are used on the ribbon cable.
IE. Master + Slave

When using "Cable Select" BOTH drives must be set as cable select with the main HDD being placed on the end of the cable and the slave/secondary drive being placed in the middle of the cable.
IE. Cable Select + Cable Select
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HPsauce

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 01:30:10 PM »

Try the jumper set as "Slave" first,
That was indeed what I was suggesting, NOT using CS but specifically Master/Slave (with this as slave).

Basically, as a slave, a lot less of the drive electronics are used. The master drive does most of the work.
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tonyappuk

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2009, 02:00:03 PM »

I haven't actually tried the drive back in the PC yet and I had had second thoughts about cable select and had decided to try slave first. Thank you both. I will post the outcome, Fingers crossed!
Tony
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roseway

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 04:30:00 PM »

Picture of the SpinPoint drive which I have. As I said, you're welcome to it if it's any use.



If you need to see a bigger picture it's at http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2519/3814289225_1131aaf5bf_b.jpg
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  Eric

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2009, 05:10:11 PM »

I'm just adding my voice to the 'I've done it too' (plugged IDE in wrong way around) chorus, and suffered no bad consequence.   I wonder if maybe it was just co-incidence, maybe the motherboard had an existing hairline crack that got aggravated, or some such ill fortune?

As an aside, on the subject of data recovery, I once went for a job interview with a company that (among other things) offered data recovery from trashed discs, and also forensic data recovery services for the forces of law and order.  In their clean room, they had a contraption on which were spinning up individual platters from a dismantled hard drive and recovering what they could, bit by bit, which I found incredible.
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BritBrat

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2009, 08:34:02 PM »

I have pluged many a floppy in the wrong way and all that happens is the drive light stays on.

Put cable in the right way and it still worked with no damage so I guess the same applies to a hardrive.
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tonyappuk

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 12:50:59 AM »

Thank you all for your continued interest. The latest good news is that the suspect drive can be read as a slave and I'm more and more inclined to believe it is a true motherboard fault. In any case, Eric, your kind offer of your Samsung drive will not now be necessary. It doesn't look like my drive PCB so I doubt it would have worked but very many thanks for the option, and the picture. I am presently trying to get back my emails message store which I had carefully located on another drive and I know you can't just copy and paste! But that's tomorrows problem - at least they're there.

Two other thoughts I have had.  During the drive pluggery I caught my fingers in the CPU cooler fan. I'm sure this is a common occurrence and something I've done before but I wondered if the mechanical shock to the CPU might be enough to damage it. Before you ask I have unplugged the CPU and there are no bent pins. I'll get around to trying it in another motherboard when I'm feeling stronger!.

The other thought was that the maintained 5v from the PSU that is separately fed to the motherboard and thence via the front panel "on" switch, might be missing but I've just checked it and it's there.

So a duff motherboard or CPU seems the likely cause. Thanks one and all for your interest and I think it's probably the right time to close this thread. If I ever find a definitive cause I will post it.
Tony
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oldfogy

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 01:50:46 AM »


If I ever find a definitive cause I will post it.

That will probably be the $1,000,000 question.

Anyway, glad to hear you can access the drive and recovery your  data etc.

PS:
I wouldn't be inclined to mess with the new CPU too much.
(Now it's back working, leave well alone)
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tonyappuk

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Re: Testing or replacing hard drives
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 11:14:51 AM »

OF my thoughts exactly!
Tony
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