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Author Topic: Losing PPo A to ZEN  (Read 31008 times)

kitz

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2009, 10:40:10 PM »

Thats an interesting suggestion by one customer that using PPPoE worked for them - despite acknowledging that it carries additional overheads etc.

Re the Voyager 2100/2110.. I used to use one of those (2100) for a long while and also suffered from the unable to auto reconnect ppp session a while back (dont use it anymore).
The problem did seem to come and go - Im pretty sure Ive documented it on these forums somewhere that it seemed to start after a re-RAS.
However it must be stressed that I wasnt seeing weird & random drops - only the problem auto re-establishing if the PPP session had been dropped for another reason.

jeff - glad that zen are now  taking it more seriously.
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2009, 09:58:16 AM »

Hi

The  good or bad news depends on how you look at it is that the problem is the same with the DG834GT . in about 7hrs I had 6 losses of PPP the shortest up time was <1 Min the longest was 4HRS. That is until 8 PM ,now been up 13HRS 52MIN and counting . Repeating the same sort of irregular losses .  ::).
I also spoke to Leo He mentioned changing firmware that he reckons you recommend . Is that the DGTEAM firmware ?

Regards Jeff

Edit  looking around some of the other forums . when people say they have lost connection ,I wonder how many people are actually having this problem. ?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 10:02:31 AM by jeffbb »
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roseway

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2009, 03:39:24 PM »

The firmware that I linked to a few messages ago is the official Netgear firmware, and I've no personal experience of it. The current DGTeam firmware, which I use, is based on an earlier version of the official firmware, so the later version may have improvements in the ADSL driver, but I don't know. However I don't think it's got anything to do with your problem, which is related to the link between the exchange and Zen; it may be the result of BT activity, or it may be caused by Zen, and really only Zen can help you get to the bottom of it.
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  Eric

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2009, 04:59:05 PM »

Hi Jeff,

Can you enable ping on your modem please?

This should be found in the WAN setup, tick the PING box please.

Kindest Regards,

Leo
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2009, 05:23:13 PM »

Hi

@ Leo   OK I have enabled ping  :)

Regards Jeff
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2009, 05:29:43 PM »

Hi

Thanks Eric . Having done everything I have done ,even though I am NO expert I would tend to think its in BT/ Zen court . The only thing left is for me is to use 2 tin cans and a length of string for communications  :lol:
I must say that Zen are being Very helpful.

Regards Jeff
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waltergmw

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2009, 06:01:36 PM »

Hi Jeff,

It will be interesting to compare the results of the ping with the frequency of your drops.
As a stab in the dark, if you discover a period of problems you might try the BT Speedtest; as you are using a non-BT ISP, it will ask for your authentication username, but sadly not your password.

@ Kitz,

Do you know if there is an authentication fault log attached to the BT W Database of usernames etc. ?

Kind regards,
Walter
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2009, 10:26:48 PM »

hi walter
quote if you discover a period of problems you might try the BT Speedtest;

the trouble is when I lose PPP then I cannot access any site . I did have one where I started a tracert just as it went down . I got the router ok then 6 timed out links then  Destination net unreachable.

tried again got this
Tracing route to kitz.co.uk [91.198.165.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1  192.168.0.1  reports: Destination net unreachable.

Trace complete.
Regards jeff
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kitz

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2009, 11:55:15 PM »

Been  a bit busy with r/l stuff today so not had chance to finish what I was going to do with this Im afraid :/

But after looking around there well could be some other customers of IPStream ISPs also seeing this.   I started a thread on TBB to see if any more Zen users were seeing this..  and also another on the PN community forums...  IDnet users may also be seeing it too, but as yet I havent had chance to post where I was going to.

However, PN does seem to be seeing this too, and Ive had a direct reply from a rep there who states that there has been an escalation to BT.  There may also be a pattern with some exchanges in NI.    All of these exchanges have had recent PEWs ..  unsure yet or not if it is related to what you are seeing.

I'm wondering if its not ISP related.. then it perhaps may be the BT RAS/RADIUS..  although I would expect a heck of a lot more users complaining if it was.

 
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2009, 06:23:42 PM »

Hi
@Kitz :The thing is that unless you are monitoring using something like routerstats or at least keeping a close eye on your synch etc , then It may be that many are just reported as connection losses. The other thing is that it is so random that if users are only on a few hours they may not notice . On some occasions the PPP is resynchronised within a minute or two . Which could be mistaken as slow web pages .
The latest time up for PPP is 24HRs and 52 minutes .So difficult to predict . during this time SYNCH rock steady SNR showing usual 2 to 3 db steps  . These steps are also  random .no affect on errors etc .
see attachment
Total Up Times (From SF counts):
 WAN:   2 days, 06:57:48
 LAN:   2 days, 07:08:08
 
CRC:  3
LOS:  0
LOF:  0
ES :  2
SF:               11641643
SF Errors:        3
Reed Solomon:     791631754
RS Corrected:     1160
RS Un-Corrected:  24
HEC:              3
Errored Seconds:  2
Severe ES:        0

I received this from ZEN "The issue is most likely at the exchange but we may need to book a standard premises visit in the first instance.
My concern is what can they find unless they are here when PPP is down. If the find nothing then I am concerned that they may try to charge me ?

Regards Jeff

[attachment deleted by admin]
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waltergmw

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2009, 08:30:21 PM »

Hi Jeff,

I suspect that it's most unlikely that BT would attempt to charge for this type of fault especially as there can be little reason to investigate your modems as both your modems stay in sync.
(I.e. they are NOT disconnecting from the exchange equipment so I don't think BT can actually be looking for anthing within your copper loop or termination thereof.)

It would however be worth a little bum protection; make sure you have written down all the tests you have done with the different modems and e-mail that data to

support@zen.co.uk, together with copies to anyone you know at zen, asking that they append your data as appropriate to their BT representative(s).

On a more general note I wonder if we could find out which BT RAS(s) have reported these authentication problems?
I know of about 20 Zen clients around here with the majority using Reading and nobody has complained to me, although I realise this is not a proof of no problem around here.

Kind regards,
Walter
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kitz

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2009, 10:42:38 AM »

Unfortunately you are right and the vast majority of users would never notice a loss of PPP session.. and think its either slowness... or mistakenly think its full loss of sync.

Even myself in the past several times over the years Ive only noticed when doing something like a tracert and Ive noticed a different gateway which then made me realise for some reason or other Ive lost only the PPP session. 

Good luck with the OR visit - hope you get an engineer that understands the difference between sync and PPP...  I'm also hoping that Azakka will cover your back on this one too as something isnt right.

Is it still occurring?
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kitz

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2009, 10:45:36 AM »

@ walter
>> On a more general note I wonder if we could find out which BT RAS(s) have reported these authentication problems?

That was kinda my aim and why I started a thread on TBB and the PN community forums to see if there was a pattern forming re the location.
From the PN reply I got the only pattern so far was NI exchanges..  which co-incidentally all had had recent engineering works (PEWs).
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2009, 04:20:57 PM »

Hi
Just lost PPP after 44HRS. :(
@Kitz
Quote :
Even myself in the past several times over the years Ive only noticed when doing something like a tracert and Ive noticed a different gateway which then made me realise for some reason or other Ive lost only the PPP session.

If the Gateway has changed then its only possible if  1 there is a loss of Synch . 2  if PPP is lost .

I have many tracerts after the PPP loss showing new Gateways , and I have many graphs showing No loss of synch and Good SNR margin with no spikes or anything to link to the PPP loss at the various times . **

@walter 
quote It would however be worth a little bum protection; make sure you have written down all the tests you have done with the different modems and e-mail that data to

I have maintained the Zen Fault tracking sheet . ** I will Email a few  of these to ZEN.
One of the ZEN guys was telling me that during his training he was told that Loss of authentication could not happen on its own ??.
Regards Jeff

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roseway

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2009, 04:37:40 PM »

Quote
One of the ZEN guys was telling me that during his training he was told that Loss of authentication could not happen on its own ??.

I'm not sure exactly what he means by that, but it certainly does happen that the PPP connection can drop without the router losing the connection to the exchange. ISP load balancing, as mentioned before, is one way in which this can happen.
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