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Author Topic: Losing PPo A to ZEN  (Read 31089 times)

jeffbb

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Losing PPo A to ZEN
« on: August 07, 2009, 03:04:17 PM »

Hi

 About 5 days a go I started to lose PPo A connection to ZEN . It drops for anything between a few seconds to maybe 10 min . then may drop again within minutes or a day or so. Until this started I generally had no losses of connection.
During this problem period my connection to the exchange has been rock steady.

Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 0
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 448 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6592 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:                   G.DMT
Channel:                Interleave
Trellis:                ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):       11.8            24.0
Attn(dB):       31.0            16.5
Pwr(dBm):       19.8            11.9
Max(Kbps):      7392            1196
Rate (Kbps):    6592            448

Total Up Times (From SF counts):
 WAN:   11 days, 19:55:46   
 LAN:   12 days, 03:07:36
 
CRC:  12
LOS:  0
LOF:  0
ES :  12

WAN PPPoA      02:25:26

see attachment for typical SNR margin.

I have done a quiet line test  absolutely dead quiet .
See also log . The log is not complete . I tried to mail it to my email . got an error message in the log .unfortunately lost all the entries and the error message has also disappeared .
Any help would be greatly appreciated .
Regards Jeff








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[attachment deleted by admin]
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roseway

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 03:15:58 PM »

It  won't be anything to do with the quality of your ADSL connection. I think your best bet would be to take it up with Zen, as they will have logs showing disconnections, and should be able to relate them to a cause.
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  Eric

kitz

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 03:23:40 PM »

If its just the PPP session and not full loss of sync then its most likely to be the ISP (can also occur on the main backhaul).

Most PPP session drops occur if the ISP is doing some load balancing... which is possible.  
Theres many IPStream ISPs atm that seem to be having to perform some sort of load balancing.  Recently just about every big sporting event thats available for streaming seems to be causing problems with capacity for ISPs.  I believe right now it the golf cricket? . :/

Perhaps Azzaka knows if they are doing load balancing.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 03:27:04 PM by kitz »
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orainsear

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 03:30:00 PM »

Which gateway are you connected to?
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 04:34:05 PM »

Hi
quote  : It  won't be anything to do with the quality of your ADSL connection.

@eric  unfortunately the ZEN help told me that it was probably BT problem ,or filter  problem ?.

quote : If its just the PPP session and not full loss of sync then its most likely to be the ISP
quote : Recently just about every big sporting event thats available for streaming seems to be causing problems with capacity for ISPs

@Kitz I thought it would be ISP problem but The ZEN guy was saying I should get in touch with BT on 151 . ?? .

         :disconnections are happening in the middle of the night as well as daytime ?



Which gateway are you connected to?

@ Orainsear  is this it 62.3.83.5 ?

Regards Jeff

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kitz

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 04:43:28 PM »

Most ISPs do perform load balancing during the night if they can.... iirc in the past they used to do them at about midnight.
Its only if things are bad and one gateway is suffering whilst others have free capacity do they normally force it during the day.

>> :disconnections are happening in the middle of the night as well as daytime ?

When you say disconnections.. you just mean loss off PPP and sync is still there?

PPP = the ISP
Sync = between the exchange and your router.

The ISP can't make you loose sync... only the PPP session.
If you loose the PPP session but still have sync... then its not your router/line/exchange.

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roseway

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 04:45:28 PM »

Quote
@eric  unfortunately the ZEN help told me that it was probably BT problem ,or filter  problem ?.

Perhaps the person you spoke to didn't understand that it's your PPP session which drops, not your connection to the exchange. I remember when I was with Zen they did tell us that they would be doing load balancing from time to time, although I wouldn't expect it to happen so frequently.

Really, only Zen can help with this. Calling 151 will get you nowhere, because that's only for voice faults. Perhaps you need to explain more clearly to Zen that your ADSL connection is not dropping.

[Edit - Kitz got there first, but I may as well post this anyway :) ]

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  Eric

BritBrat

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 04:46:12 PM »

You have not changed to windows 7 have you?
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orainsear

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 05:19:40 PM »

is this it 62.3.83.5 ?

Yes - that's Gandhi.

When I was with Zen the load balancing usually happened in the small hours, between 12 - 1 am, unless there was an emergency load balancing.

The current Zen service alerts don't indicate any outages or problems that should be affecting you in this way though.  Best to get back to Zen as already suggested.

 
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 05:26:52 PM »

Hi
quote : If you loose the PPP session but still have sync... then its not your router/line/exchange.

Yes its only the ppp session

Quote You have not changed to windows 7 have you?

No not looking for trouble just yet  ;D

quote  Perhaps the person you spoke to didn't understand that it's your PPP session which drops


I did try to make it very clear to the individual . I went through my router log details with him. Yet he still tried to tell me it could be a line problem .  :(
Here's hoping that Azzaka  might pick up on this ?
Regards Jeff

Edit   in fact the ZEN help guy confirmed the time the problem started . He also commented that my line looked very stable !!??
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 05:29:41 PM by jeffbb »
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 08:13:41 PM »

Hi all further update
Just lost it again a few minutes ago this is the log

Fri, 2009-08-07 11:21:10 - CHAP authentication success                                 this was when it reconnected this morning
Fri, 2009-08-07 13:08:25 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Fri, 2009-08-07 13:35:06 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Fri, 2009-08-07 13:58:11 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Fri, 2009-08-07 15:28:55 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Fri, 2009-08-07 18:21:36 - Initialize LCP.                                         at this time I was on internet and could not connect to
                                                                                                        Kitz pages .Could not access router login .got authentication failure.
 
Fri, 2009-08-07 18:21:36 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Fri, 2009-08-07 18:22:03 - CHAP authentication success                          All lights were green . still couldn't connect to web pages       decided to reboot PC
Fri, 2009-08-07 18:22:41 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2           
Fri, 2009-08-07 18:32:41 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2

 (had to leave for a few minutes .)  about 1845 all ok
It seems to take a few minutes after all the router lights are green before you can actually connect to the web ??
During this episode all my router stats parameters  were rock steady
regards Jeff

                                                                                                                             
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kitz

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2009, 10:14:59 PM »

LCP (Link Control Protocol) is part of the PPP session between you and your ISP.

AIUI its what identifies you and authorises you on to the ISP network... It doesnt have anything to do with physical line conditions.

LCP session problems could occur for example:-
1. ~ if you was with an ISP that did idle timeouts,
2. ~ if you was with an ISP that did session limits
3. ~ if for some reason your login was no longer valid,
4. ~ if there was a problem with the ISP radius
5. ~ if the ISP drops your connection.
6. ~ if theres a problem on the BTw centrals
7. ~ if theres too many session limits on the centrals and BTw are 'policing' them
8. ~ possible problem with the BTw RADIUS in that it cant ident you.


* 1&2 dont apply to Zen,
* its not 3 or you wouldnt be able to re-authorise,
* 4 is unlikely or youd have problems connecting again and lots of Zen customers wouldnt be able to connect.
* 7 highly unlikely and youd have problems reconnecting.. plus you'd also see your router reporting several attempts to establish a connection.

That leaves 5 or 6

>> It seems to take a few minutes after all the router lights are green before you can actually connect to the web ?

Shouldn't take too long only about a minute at the most- you'll have to be reauthorised on to the Zen part of the network.
Your router should keep trying every few minutes until it does get auth....  if it gets a failed attempt your router should either log it as failed and/or show each re-attempt.

From your router logs

>> Fri, 2009-08-07 18:21:36 - LCP is allowed to come up.
>> Fri, 2009-08-07 18:22:03 - CHAP authentication success

The time looks slightly slow but still ok..  theres no failed attempts.

hmmm just thought.- as I typed slightly slow...  would need to see more normal zen auth to be sure - but could be round-robin trying a few centrals before it does connect.  If it is.. then this points to possible unbalanced centrals.

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kitz

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2009, 10:21:50 PM »

oops - just had a look on TBB - theres a couple of complaints today about zen speeds and network flakiness.

Certainly looks like some of their centrals are loaded and therefore imbalanced - either that or one of their centrals has failed.
In that case it wouldnt surprise me in the least if they are performing emergency load balancing for either of the above.
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waltergmw

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 07:52:17 AM »

You'll see Zen have completed emergency load ballancing:-

http://status.zensupport.co.uk/index.php?serviceid=5&incidentid=1384&archive=1

Kind regards,
Walter
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jeffbb

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Re: Losing PPo A to ZEN
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 09:46:35 AM »

HI
quote You'll see Zen have completed emergency load ballancing:-

Wasnt that in JULY?
quote : oops - just had a look on TBB - theres a couple of complaints today about zen speeds and network flakiness

@Kitz  I will have a look around and get in touch with Zen again .I am rather disappointed with the response I got from help guy. ,it was almost as bad as you know who. Was determined to fob me off.
quote  Your router should keep trying every few minutes until it does get auth....  if it gets a failed attempt your router should either log it as failed and/or show each re-attempt.

It has done that ,on Thursday night there were many attempts ,see first attachment for details .
Thanks for all your help.

regards Jeff
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