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[coolsnakeman]

Just plugged in my BT home hub and my speed is connecting slower than the sagem got. I only plugged it in and already i have errors. Check my stats:

Connection Information
Line state   Connected
Connection time   0 days, 00:14:44
Downstream   6,712 Kbps
Upstream   1,012 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI   0/38
Type   PPPoA
Modulation   G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type   Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up)   6.0 dB / 5.5 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up)   48.9 dB / 27.2 dB
Output power (Down/Up)   10.2 dBm / 1.5 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up)   403 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up)   2 / 0
HEC Errors (Down/Up)   19 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote)   1 / 0

[waltergmw]

Hi Coolsnakeman,

Unless that's a typo, your upstream power is very low !

Kind regards,
Walter

[coolsnakeman]

Could be because i just only plugged the router in. Def not a typo it was copied and pasted. Ok just checked the stats after 21 hours this is what we got:

Connection Information
Line state   Connected
Connection time   0 days, 21:02:45
Downstream   7,788 Kbps
Upstream   1,040 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI   0/38
Type   PPPoA
Modulation   G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type   Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up)   2.1 dB / 5.7 dB <<<<<<<<<< This is VERY close to dropping on me if these SNR's stay the same.
Line attenuation (Down/Up)   48.8 dB / 27.2 dB
Output power (Down/Up)   10.1 dBm / 1.5 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up)   7401 / 19
CRC Errors (Down/Up)   14205 / 20
HEC Errors (Down/Up)   124733 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote)   1509 / 12

Been doing speed tests and have a look at the results over the past 2 days and tell me what you think:

19:20Pm- 19/8/09

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 6712 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  1011 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4347 kbps

18:20Pm - 20/8/09

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 7788 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  1039 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3280 kbps

Haven't managed to get a test done before 5pm but i will on sunday

[coolsnakeman]

Speed has drastically reduced and Ip profile is now ADSL3500 Also been suffering disconnections. BT engineer due to call out this wednesday between 1-6pm so i need all the luck in the book and hope this cabling can be changed. I am syncing below my access speed so i have that to argue against BT if they tried to pull the wool over my eyes. Current stats below:

onnection Information
Line state   Connected
Connection time   1 days, 02:23:13
Downstream   5,368 Kbps
Upstream   774 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI   0/38
Type   PPPoA
Modulation   G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type   Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up)   15.8 dB / 9.1 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up)   48.8 dB / 27.2 dB
Output power (Down/Up)   8.4 dBm / 1.1 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up)   5517 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up)   290 / 0
HEC Errors (Down/Up)   2275 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote)   215 / 0

[kitz]

Downstream output power looks low too.
I may be totally wrong, but I seem to recall something about output power and the HomeHubs?

Your lower throughput speed could very well be likely due to a high level of CRC errors... which will slow you down a bit.


Your last results SNR shows at 15dB.. which probably indicates a higher SNR.  This in turn will be costing you quite a bit of sync speed.

>> BT engineer due to call out this wednesday between 1-6pm

Best of luck and hope he can change it..  after BT have promised to be able to do better than sky

[coolsnakeman]

Just had another drop in the connection again. Looked at how long the router has been connected for and before the drop it said 7 hours so it has dropped out while i have been at work. As you can see another decrease in my speed so DLM is probably going to reduce my profile again with all these drop outs. Yeah i need the luck and i am well under my access speed so if nothing is done this time then i am e-mailing ofcom Latest stats after the drop:

Connection Information
Line state   Connected
Connection time   0 days, 00:06:21
Downstream   4,614 Kbps
Upstream   929 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI   0/38
Type   PPPoA
Modulation   G.992.3 Annex A
Latency type   Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up)   14.7 dB / 6.2 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up)   44.3 dB / 27.2 dB
Output power (Down/Up)   7.0 dBm / 1.4 dBm<<<<<<<<This is very low but as you said could be router.
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up)   13 / 11
CRC Errors (Down/Up)   0 / 7
HEC Errors (Down/Up)   7 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote)   0 / 7

[kitz]

>> Latest stats after the drop:

Downstream   4,614 Kbps


 

[coolsnakeman]

Yeah i know it sucks. Just waiting on the engineer now to call round 8)

[coolsnakeman]

Well engineer called run an APTS test and got NO errors on his laptop now why doesn't that surprise me. I have tested this with another router plus in the test socket with all non ADSL equipment disconnected and the SFI advised that it could be my own equipment causing these errors . Just to satisfy him i advised i would check the errors in the router wirelessly while leaving my ethernet cables disconnected but guess what there is still errors on the connection. Engineer also advised that the aluminium isn't from the exchange to the cab it is actually going from the exchange to what i think a junction box then splits apparently to the cab where it is copper from there on in . I questioned him about this and asked what the chances where of me getting this replaced (even offered a cup of tea) and he advised that there was no chance and that i would have to wait until FTTC . I am not letting this go only because i am bored and want to annoy BT so i have went back to them again advising i have tested this the way the SFI required and it is still half the speed that i began with and the errors are still bad. I have been advised to keep an eye on it for 24 hours and BT are going to call again tomorrow night. One other thing the engineer did mention was there was work done a few years ago on the springfield road so the cabling could be laid differently i was pretty peed at this thinking "why didn't you go check". Engineer didn't even check at the DP downstairs where the line comes in either which was annoying aswell. It almost looked as if he was being pretty lazy and didn't really want to check anywhere else but my property. I was shocked though at the APTS test as it came up my line distance as about 3Km. Was advised by the engineer that is just calculating that from the stats so it won't be accurate. Any suggestions on this kitz all info to hit these guys with would be helpful cause after all i ain't even getting my access speed any longer.

[waltergmw]

Hi CSM,

Just to fill in a bit of detail you'll see at http://winterbournestoke-thedigitaldivide.blogspot.com/
that they have 3,361 m of aluminium cable which BT estimate would cost £180,000 to replace and they can't justify those costs for a small village.
I am sure they would like to replace those cables as aluminium goes brittle and is an absolute nightmare if ever a joint has to be opened. Remember a typical rural cable could be 100 pairs which equate to 400 wires in 200 crimp connections. Poke about in the birdsnest with a tone tracer to find the pair you want, and you stand a very good chance of disturbing countless other pairs and not knowing which ones are broken until all the customers have complained. Each time a complaint is dealt with, the joint has to be opened up again, and you stand a good chance .............. etc. etc.

However I believe E side cables tend not to be opened too often, it's usually the D side ones which require changes and a lot of that cable is copper. (@ Ezzer please comment)

The other reason for BT's lack of enthusiasm for investigating noisy cables is that a typical line has an average of around 40 joints; Murphy says you won't be lucky enough to be able to trace the faulty joint accurately the first time.

It is however worth chasing BT to do a lift and shift or a tie pair modification. Our long line actually became stable after BT had done so, but only after all the other less arduous items had been eliminated.

On another point BT are quite capable of giving you a line length estimate, although their measurements will vary if the combination of copper and aluminium aren't known precisely.
As an example our VERY long line http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=5546.0 was measured by BT for Zen at 6913 metres. I've just used the SCC map distance measuring system which gave me a road distance of 7060 metres which seems remarkably accurate, although the actual cable distance will be longer than the road distance due to the joints and length of the tails on the poles etc.

Kind regards,
Walter

[coolsnakeman]

As i said to the SFI i can be a very hard man to convince lol. Well i have tested the connection without the ethernet cables connected to eliminate any REIN from my PC or xbox360 and here you go have a look at those stats and tell me there isn't something wrong with this lol:

Connection Information
Line state   Connected
Connection time   0 days, 21:01:00
Downstream   4,515 Kbps
Upstream   888 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI   0/38
Type   PPPoA
Modulation   G.992.3 Annex A
Latency type   Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up)   15.5 dB / 7.6 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up)   44.3 dB / 27.2 dB
Output power (Down/Up)   7.1 dBm / 1.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up)   824 / 11
CRC Errors (Down/Up)   187 / 0
HEC Errors (Down/Up)   1758 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote)   142 / 0

Now as the SFI advised that anything over 100 errors on FEC or even HEC can tend to be an issue just going to get worse. What i don't understand is why was the engineer not able to see these errors on his APTS test with the voyager 105 and i have seen these errors on 2 different routers even at the test socket. Another question would be why has my speed dropped from the 8Mb i was originally getting to 4Mb. It has gotten worse that is why and it is only going to get worse. I understand that BT won't change aluminium cabling and very rarely go near E-side cabling but what i don't understand is what makes them think they can charge you all this money and get you a crap service that doesn't even achieve 80% of the speed it should be achieving because of cabling that was laid 40 years ago. This is the 21st century not the 19th lol. I don't give up that easy and i will be applying more pressure to BT if this is not sorted out. I am hoping this will be a repeat SFI and will go to interventions. On that note a lift and shift won't do any good cause i had a TP modification when i was with sky BB and that made no difference cause the cabling is still the same.

[coolsnakeman]

Router left on now for 3 days and i have had a drop again and a drop in the speed again. BT have been on the phone and guess what they are going to do a lift and shift. Mentioned to them once again about the aluminium and it was just shrugged off. Errors building as per usual. Latest stats:

Connection Information
Line state   Connected
Connection time   1 days, 01:35:12
Downstream   4,443 Kbps <<<<<<<<<<<<decrease in speed
Upstream   888 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI   0/38
Type   PPPoA
Modulation   G.992.3 Annex A
Latency type   Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up)   15.7 dB / 7.2 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up)   44.2 dB / 27.1 dB
Output power (Down/Up)   7.1 dBm / 1.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote)   0 / 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up)   808 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up)   158 / 0
HEC Errors (Down/Up)   1244 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote)   116 / 0

Seems to be dropping every 2 days or so.

[coolsnakeman]

Latest update. Sent yet another e-mail to BT last night almost demanding they send an engineer to the E-side and get the cabling changed to copper.  Received a phone call and to my surprise they are tasking an SFI to the E-side to check the cabling. Fingers crossed it gets replaced

[coolsnakeman]

Awk well wishful thinking. Had my 3rd SFI sent out and i have pretty much been set straight BT are NOT going to replace this cable for me (guy lives up the road from me a bit and getting crap speeds aswell). Even found out they have already laid the fibre optic down the manholes up my way about 4 weeks ago for the FTTC however the SFI advised this was only for business's at the minute. Also found out i am further away from the exchange than i expected. Spoke with my friend that works at BT he advises i am 3.8Km which would be about right for that attenuation. So ran out of look even though at my current speed which is just under 5Mb i am still gathering errors.

[waltergmw]

Gentlefolk,

Given:-

1.    That I have been trying to PAY BT openreach to install a shorter route of about 400 m of 100 pr catenary to replace a lousy loop of 1.2 km for over two years. (The retail cost is about £3,000 for the cable)

2.     general disquiet at http://winterbournestoke-thedigitaldivide.blogspot.com/ have 3,361 m of aluminium which BT say would cost £180,000 and they won't replace it. One reason for the excessive costs is that much of BT's cabling is just burried in the ground, which "saved" some money, and not in ducts so the entire length has to be re-excavated.

I just don't see BT replacing ANY aluminium that isn't in ducts and would expect that once it causes so much grief the only practical solution is to do the sensible thing and install FTTH.

Kind regards,
Walter