Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jabns]

Hi there,


Just got a new line as kitz knows and it was syncing fine last night until the morning and then all of a sudden i got loads of disconects. So i did some self diagnostics and found that when i anwer the phone or dial a number the DSL disconects!!! This is kind of urgent because they have already raised my target SNR by 6DB and i don't know what to do.

This is what i have tried so far:

new filters x2
new modem x1
different rj11 cable x2
plugging into the master socket and test socket


As you can see i have tried the usual and its still happening! Should i unplug that line or should i only plug it in once a night for the first 10 days(at 02:00 or something), or should i just leave it to "die"?

EDIT: It can retrain once i am on the phone(about 30secs in) at the same speed as before.
EDIT 2: just tested again and same as above except i noticed that it drops again when i hang up. The speed is also 1MB faster everytime while i am on the phone! 

**NOTE**
Kitz just got some of my speed    !

Many thanks,
James Barlow

[kitz]

When you migrated was there any downtime?  Did the migration occur overnight?

Reason Im asking is because if there was minimal downtime overnight then the migration is most likely an SSB change and therefore you will still be on the same dslam, and BT wont have done anything to your physical line.

Unless its a new connection then there shouldnt be any new training period and your profile should follow you from your old ISP.

The symptoms you describe sound either typical of faulty filters or a "high open" fault.
See ~ adsl only works when the phone is being used.

One thing I am unsure about is how the bonding will affect your line since afaik the type of bonding used by upstream internet is unsupported by BTw and I know very little about it.  :/

[edit]
speed is fine here - 7079 kbps

[jabns]

This line is a one that has only been used for voice for 16years and has just been activated.(This is the one with the probs)

The other line is used and always has been used just for BB.

**EDIT**

I have tried it with just that line on its own as well and it is just the same.

Many thanks,
James Barlow

[kitz]

So it will be still "training", but that wont affect the speeds which it will be able to sync at.  The training period is more a phase for setting the MSR and FTR, neither of which should affect the speeds which you can attain now.

Its also during this period that changes such as Interleaving and the Target SNR are set on the line - but this is an ongoing process and not limited to the first 10 days.

It sounds like you could possibly have the beginnings of resistance on the line, which normally only gets worse as the line deteriorates when the weather gets bad.  Have you done the quiet line test?

[jabns]

Just done it now and there is just the odd "blip" every 4-6secs.

**EDIT**

These only start when the line leaves IDLE and goes to >Handshake>training>showtime


I Have an attenuation of 24DB and an SNR of 11DB.


James Barlow

[jabns]

  =================================
      Showing line stats for wp1adsl (migrated one that works fine)
   =================================


   -------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: ADSL BAUD RATE
   -------------------------------------

   Down Rate: 8128 kbps
   Up   Rate: 800 kbps



   --------------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO
   --------------------------------------------

   Local SNR Ratio :  10 dB
   Remote SNR Ratio:  3 dB



   ----------------------------------
      wp1adsl: ATTENUATION
   ----------------------------------

   Attenuation:  26 dB



   -----------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: LAST FAILED STATUS
   -----------------------------------------

   Last failed status: 0x0



   -------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: ERROR COUNTERS
   -------------------------------------

Errors CRC/Min:      0000   Overall Failures:  0000
Execessive CRC/Tick: 0000   Excessive CRC/Min: 0000

Cnt 00   :   fec-I   000   Cnt 01   :   fec-F   000
Cnt 02   :   crc-I   000   Cnt 03   :   crc-F   004
Cnt 04   :   sef   000   Cnt 05   :   l-los   000
Cnt 06   :   ffec-I   000   Cnt 07   :   ffec-F   000
Cnt 08   :   febe-I   000   Cnt 09   :   febe-F   000
Cnt 10   :   rdi   000   Cnt 11   :   f-los   000
Cnt 12   :   N/A   000   Cnt 13   :   N/A   000
Cnt 14   :   N/A   001   Cnt 15   :   N/A   000
Cnt 16   :   N/A   000   Cnt 17   :   N/A   000
Cnt 18   :   N/A   000   Cnt 19   :   N/A   000
Cnt 20   :   N/A   000   Cnt 21   :   N/A   000



   ---------------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: CHIP ATM CELL COUNTERS
   ---------------------------------------------

Rx Chip          : 123555
Tx Chip          : 12036

   --------------------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: DRIVER RX ATM CELL COUNTERS
   --------------------------------------------------

Valid Cells      : 27548
Idll  Cells      : 95793
Invalid Atm Hdr  : 0
Invalid Prot Hdr : 0
Invalid PDU Size : 0
Rx Congestion    : 0
Rx CLP Set       : 0

   --------------------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: DRIVER TX ATM CELL COUNTERS
   --------------------------------------------------

Valid Cells      : 10956



   ----------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: XMIT POWER STATUS
   ----------------------------------------

   Local Attenuation :  6 dB
   Local Num of Bins :  23
   Remote Num of bins:  215





      Showing line stats for wp2adsl (Dodgy one just been activated)
   =================================


   -------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: ADSL BAUD RATE
   -------------------------------------

   Down Rate: 5504 kbps
   Up   Rate: 832 kbps



   --------------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO
   --------------------------------------------

   Local SNR Ratio :  10 dB
   Remote SNR Ratio:  5 dB



   ----------------------------------
      wp2adsl: ATTENUATION
   ----------------------------------

   Attenuation:  24 dB


   -------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: ERROR COUNTERS
   -------------------------------------

Errors CRC/Min:      0000   Overall Failures:  0000
Execessive CRC/Tick: 0000   Excessive CRC/Min: 0000

Cnt 00   :   fec-I   107   Cnt 01   :   fec-F   000
Cnt 02   :   crc-I   057   Cnt 03   :   crc-F   000
Cnt 04   :   sef   006   Cnt 05   :   l-los   246
Cnt 06   :   ffec-I   000   Cnt 07   :   ffec-F   000
Cnt 08   :   febe-I   008   Cnt 09   :   febe-F   000
Cnt 10   :   rdi   012   Cnt 11   :   f-los   000
Cnt 12   :   N/A   003   Cnt 13   :   N/A   006
Cnt 14   :   N/A   000   Cnt 15   :   N/A   000
Cnt 16   :   N/A   003   Cnt 17   :   N/A   002
Cnt 18   :   N/A   004   Cnt 19   :   N/A   000
Cnt 20   :   N/A   003   Cnt 21   :   N/A   000

   ----------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: XMIT POWER STATUS
   ----------------------------------------

   Local Attenuation :  6 dB
   Local Num of Bins :  24
   Remote Num of bins:  223

[kitz]

If on the Quiet line test you can hear interference, then it can be reported to BT 151 as a telephone fault.  These often get resolved quicker than adsl faults, because they get priority.

If that test doesnt really show anything then it will have to be reported to BT via your ISP Im afraid.  Obviously I dont know for sure but its very possible that its an actual line fault and could well be oxydisation of one of the joints which needs a BT engineer.

Bear in mind Im talking "normal adsl" here and really dont know the effects of MLPPP bonding, however the fact that this problem is only occuring on the one line hopefully negates this.

IIRC you had problems with your orignal line - until BT changed the copper pair? Wonder if the new line is similar to the old.

Also (and Im not sure of this - but because of the location of your home - theres possibly 2 routes which your line could come in via ( youd have to go looking for the green cab boxes near you cause Im not sure exactly where you are), but it could come straight down past the queens and over that way... or down broadway and up chatsworth.  Chatsworth (or is it grange road) is possibly the nearest green cab.. but would actually be the longest route?

[edit]

Seen your linestats - attenuation is about the same on both lines so scrap the above idea.  However the 2nd line obviously has the worst SNR - therefore there is more resistance on that line. :/

[jabns]

the nearest one is grange road.

The thing i find wierd is that the line stats for the second line are better than the first yet it gets lower sync speeds.

I have my electritions coming tomorrow to redo all our internal wiring and fit new prefiltered sockets.

If that does not change anything then i am going to ring BT and raise a voice fault because i will have elliminated all problems on my side.

I wonder what this extreme variation in heat is doing for everyones lines(hot>cold>hot>cold). I bet there all about to snap  .

For tonight i am going to unplug it and then continue in the morning because my eyes are stinging like hell and my head is spinning 

Thanks Kitz,
James Barlow

[kitz]

>> The thing i find wierd is that the line stats for the second line are better than the first yet it gets lower sync speeds.

wp1adsl

Down Rate: 8128 kbps
Local SNR Ratio :  10 dB
Attenuation:  26 dB

wp2adsl

Down Rate: 5504 kbps
Local SNR Ratio :  10 dB
Attenuation:  24 dB

Nope - not for a maxdsl line I'm afraid

Although the attenuation is slightly lower, dslMax utilises the SNR Margin to give you the best speed.  So whilst those figures show SNR as being the same.. in reality line 2 is much worse and theres no doubt that line 2 is the noisiest line.
Reason its sync'd at a lower speed - remember the higher the speed then the lower the Margin will be, and SNR will drop as the sync speeds go up.
So as an example to compare the lines on a more like-for-like basis if your line1 was syncing 5504 , then the SNR Margin on that line would possibly be more in the region of 24dBish.

[jabns]

 =================================
      Showing line stats for wp1adsl
   =================================


   -------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: ADSL BAUD RATE
   -------------------------------------

   Down Rate: 8128 kbps
   Up   Rate: 800 kbps



   --------------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO
   --------------------------------------------

   Local SNR Ratio :  10 dB
   Remote SNR Ratio:  3 dB



   ----------------------------------
      wp1adsl: ATTENUATION
   ----------------------------------

   Attenuation:  26 dB



   -----------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: LAST FAILED STATUS
   -----------------------------------------

   Last failed status: 0x47



   -------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: ERROR COUNTERS
   -------------------------------------

Errors CRC/Min:      0000   Overall Failures:  0000
Execessive CRC/Tick: 0000   Excessive CRC/Min: 0000

Cnt 00   :   fec-I   000   Cnt 01   :   fec-F   000
Cnt 02   :   crc-I   000   Cnt 03   :   crc-F   004
Cnt 04   :   sef   000   Cnt 05   :   l-los   000
Cnt 06   :   ffec-I   000   Cnt 07   :   ffec-F   000
Cnt 08   :   febe-I   000   Cnt 09   :   febe-F   000
Cnt 10   :   rdi   000   Cnt 11   :   f-los   001
Cnt 12   :   N/A   000   Cnt 13   :   N/A   000
Cnt 14   :   N/A   003   Cnt 15   :   N/A   000
Cnt 16   :   N/A   000   Cnt 17   :   N/A   000
Cnt 18   :   N/A   000   Cnt 19   :   N/A   000
Cnt 20   :   N/A   000   Cnt 21   :   N/A   001



   ---------------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: CHIP ATM CELL COUNTERS
   ---------------------------------------------

Rx Chip          : 32620
Tx Chip          : 45873

   --------------------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: DRIVER RX ATM CELL COUNTERS
   --------------------------------------------------

Valid Cells      : 414147
Idll  Cells      : 404594
Invalid Atm Hdr  : 0
Invalid Prot Hdr : 0
Invalid PDU Size : 0
Rx Congestion    : 0
Rx CLP Set       : 0

   --------------------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: DRIVER TX ATM CELL COUNTERS
   --------------------------------------------------

Valid Cells      : 109131



   ----------------------------------------
      wp1adsl: XMIT POWER STATUS
   ----------------------------------------

   Local Attenuation :  6 dB
   Local Num of Bins :  23
   Remote Num of bins:  216


  =================================
      Showing line stats for wp2adsl
   =================================


   -------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: ADSL BAUD RATE
   -------------------------------------

   Down Rate: 7616 kbps
   Up   Rate: 832 kbps



   --------------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO
   --------------------------------------------

   Local SNR Ratio :  13 dB
   Remote SNR Ratio:  7 dB



   ----------------------------------
      wp2adsl: ATTENUATION
   ----------------------------------

   Attenuation:  24 dB



   -----------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: LAST FAILED STATUS
   -----------------------------------------

   Last failed status: 0x6b



   -------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: ERROR COUNTERS
   -------------------------------------

Errors CRC/Min:      0000   Overall Failures:  0000
Execessive CRC/Tick: 0000   Excessive CRC/Min: 0000

Cnt 00   :   fec-I   002   Cnt 01   :   fec-F   000
Cnt 02   :   crc-I   002   Cnt 03   :   crc-F   000
Cnt 04   :   sef   000   Cnt 05   :   l-los   000
Cnt 06   :   ffec-I   000   Cnt 07   :   ffec-F   000
Cnt 08   :   febe-I   000   Cnt 09   :   febe-F   000
Cnt 10   :   rdi   000   Cnt 11   :   f-los   000
Cnt 12   :   N/A   000   Cnt 13   :   N/A   000
Cnt 14   :   N/A   000   Cnt 15   :   N/A   000
Cnt 16   :   N/A   000   Cnt 17   :   N/A   000
Cnt 18   :   N/A   000   Cnt 19   :   N/A   000
Cnt 20   :   N/A   000   Cnt 21   :   N/A   000



   ---------------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: CHIP ATM CELL COUNTERS
   ---------------------------------------------

Rx Chip          : 26051
Tx Chip          : 51718

   --------------------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: DRIVER RX ATM CELL COUNTERS
   --------------------------------------------------

Valid Cells      : 450454
Idll  Cells      : 492803
Invalid Atm Hdr  : 0
Invalid Prot Hdr : 0
Invalid PDU Size : 0
Rx Congestion    : 0
Rx CLP Set       : 0

   --------------------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: DRIVER TX ATM CELL COUNTERS
   --------------------------------------------------

Valid Cells      : 114946



   ----------------------------------------
      wp2adsl: XMIT POWER STATUS
   ----------------------------------------

   Local Attenuation :  6 dB
   Local Num of Bins :  24
   Remote Num of bins:  223

[jabns]

Hi there,

As you can see above the problem is nearly solved  .

The people who lived in the house before me had modified the phone system and had a half switchboard style install 1971 style  .

So i did not dare ring BT and so me and the electrictians have "fixed and legalised" it. God that junction box was messy!

By doing this and replacing one of the wires with CAT5e cable i now have increaced my SNR margin on the second line in the bond by 10DB  .


Now all i have do do is wait for BT to reset my bRAS and lower my target SNR by 3DB.

Many thanks for all the help,
James Barlow

[kitz]

well done   Glad its sorted.

btw..  do you know what this is all about

>> Showing line stats for wp1adsl
wp1adsl: ATTENUATION
   ----------------------------------

   Attenuation:  26 dB

 
Local Attenuation :  6 dB

>> Showing line stats for wp2adsl

wp2adsl: ATTENUATION
   ----------------------------------

   Attenuation:  24 dB


Local Attenuation :  6 dB

Local attenuation is normally the downstream.. when I quickly scanned your stats and saw those I thought huh?  Im very close to the exchange and even mine is 7dB... so Im not entirely sure what those figures are showing.

[jabns]

The only thing i can think of is maybe its taken from the DSLAM(ie Upstream Attenuation).

Because i know my attenuation is between 20-26DB depending on which modems i use.

James Barlow

[kitz]

nah dont think its that either - hence the my curiosity where the figure's come from.

Attenuation is related to the length of the line as a very rough guide some people use 10db per km but its actually a bit less than that.  Based on average lossness for a line 6dB would be somewhere more in the region of 450 meters.