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Author Topic: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.  (Read 7268 times)

waltergmw

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Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« on: July 04, 2009, 08:35:45 PM »

Hello everyone,

This (rather long) note is my tentative contribution to the Parliamentary Committee.
I'd be interested in the views of others on these topics which are coloured red below.

Kind regards,
Walter

The following link provides access to the appropriate enquiry scope. The lines in Red are the topics listed at present.

http://www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/berr/becpn47_0809.cfm

Whether the target for universal access to broadband at a speed of 2Mb/s by 2012 is ambitious enough?

No it certainly isn’t. In order to ensure a reasonable minimum speed at the extremities it is important to specify much faster speeds closer in. Were fibre being deployed there would be no need to consider speed in as much detail as it is so much faster and importantly provides similar upload and download speeds that Asymetric DSL doesn’t.

Is the Government right to propose a levy on copper lines to fund next generation access?

No, it is wasteful of resources and would require yet another Government administrative body; The Telcos would also have to set up otherwise useless administrative systems. The proposed levy isn’t nearly big enough to have a major impact. It also seems unfair that the poorest people would be penalised when it’s most unlikely they would ever use broadband.

Will the Government's plans for next generation access work?

No, this type of intervention will seriously distort broadband design and implementation plans. All of the stop-gap designs to meet this very low standard have limited or non-existent upgrade paths to reasonable speeds. There can be little doubt that we need to catch up with under-developed countries such as Slovakia who have already implemented phase one of a national Fibre To The Home scheme.

If companies are providing the speed of access which they promise to consumers?

Yes in most cases they are, as they have to include caveats to cover the copper line distance and quality limitations as well as their capacity costs.

The extent to which current regulation strikes the right balance between ensuring fair competition and encouraging investment in next generation networks?

Current legislation has allowed Virgin Media (via NTL and Telewest etc.) to provide fast FTTC solutions and has also provided a platform to allow many ISPs to provide ADSL broadband over the existing BT copper infrastructure but the whole process is flawed as there is no obligation for BT Openreach to maintain the local loops in an adequate condition for optimum broadband performance. They only have to provide a 3 kHz audio capability and this can be satisfied even with crossed pairs of wires which are disastrous for an ADSL specification which relies on balanced twisted pairs. Furthermore business pressures are forcing BT, who are at a serious technical disadvantage, to concentrate on the more economically attractive areas of the country that already have mainly Virgin Media services at the expense of ignoring sparser areas completely. Likewise Virgin are also not interested in the sparser areas. There is a strong case that sparser areas are much more in need of fast broadband in order to compete with urban facilities enjoyed by other more fortunate users.

and
Any other views stakeholders think the Committee should be aware of.


The BT Group are not funding BT Openreach sufficiently to maintain or improve the copper network. In some areas there is a significant shortage of copper pairs as evidenced by the number of DACS line-sharing units deployed. DACS circuits are totally incompatible with ADSL broadband signals. Furthemore BT are being evasive and deliberately obstructive - see Appendix A. They also have not set up a channel to allow local groups to contribute financially to improve their networks and currently have refused such contributions!

It is clear that the BT Group, who have announced some financial difficulties in their oversea operations, are attempting to invest in areas they hope will be more profitable.
This produces two undesirable consequences, viz.
Maintenance is kept at minimum levels to support their obligation to provide voice-only services.
BT are investing heavily in Next Generation Access exchange equipment and FTTC mainly for the most profitable areas only.

Unless BT is to be re-nationalised they cannot be expected to deploy their Fibre capital in areas of poor return which is generally where the worst broadband areas are. Nor can they be expected to invest in upgrading the copper network in bad areas. It follows that one of the few ways of resolving these fundamental difficulties is to segregate BT Openreach completely from its parent and provide it with significant Government funding to refurbish the copper network, as well as install new FTTC cabinets in sparsely populated or very long line areas. However the true costs of copper refurbishment and maintenance should be carefully compared with the cost of installing and maintaining FTTH; if they are similar FTTH is to be strongly favoured.

Appendix A

Hambleden (Near Henly where protracted negotiations to install a trial FTTH scheme have achieved absolutely nothing, despite a small enabling subsidy)
Peaslake Road (BT's refusal to accept a contribution from local residents to install a 0.4 Km overhead line to replace a 1.2 km loop of poorly-performing cable.)

Appendix B

The following is provided as a typical approach to assist in solving the national crisis we face. It is offered as a simplistic solution which, if the appropriate people were persuaded to negotiate fairly, could produce a viable mechanism to overcome the national emergency. An alternative is to re-nationalise the entire communications industry.

Given:-

1.1   Virgin media have a fully working fast FTTC solution running reasonably well and they are planning network upgrades and expansion of the areas they cover. They have also obtained backbone internet infrastructure. However they do not want to invest in areas which are unlikely to provide sufficient Return On Investment from FTTC.

1.2   BT at Hambleden have shown they are an unreliable fibre negotiator. However they have a major investment in the backbone internet infrastructure, but which will probably need reinforcement in the short to medium term. BT have announced an outline plan to provide FTTC over poor unshielded twisted pair copper in some instances, often in competition with Virgin Media with a superior co-axial copper implementation.

2.1   The UK has a national communications investment emergency. (As a low-level example I know of 3 services in Ewhurst which are no longer adequate, even though they had been in the past. Currently BT Openreach are not obliged to invest the required capital to remedy the situation.)

2.2   It follows that Virgin Media should offer a wholesale arrangement to allow others to provide high speed broadband using Virgin’s infrastructure.

2.3   In exchange for wholesale access to Virgin’s network BT should be prohibited from installing competing network equipment in areas already covered by Virgin.

2.4   BT should then be expected to install FTTC systems in the next lower-cost areas.

2.5   The remaining areas with PSP green street cabinets should be provided with FTTC by an entirely segregated UK Openreach group with government funds. In addition “UK Openreach” must be tasked with refurbishment of the D side copper loop and the elimination of all DACS units. This will require significant investment in larger local cables.
Where thought economic FTTH solutions should be installed instead of copper upgrades, most especially on "D side" lines of over say 3 km.

2.6   Only those areas with very long lines, either direct from rural exchanges or from very remote PSPs should be considered for alternative limited broadband solutions such as satellite or wireless in the immediate future and to be given top priority for FTTH investment. Any solutions proposed without a viable expansion route just to obtain the proposed phone line tax money should be prohibited.

______________________________________________
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 10:47:14 PM by waltergmw »
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roseway

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 12:40:11 PM »

Whether the target for universal access to broadband at a speed of 2Mb/s by 2012 is ambitious enough?

In itself it is ambitious enough. It's fast enough for the things people need to do, as opposed to those things which they may want to do. The argument is really about how it's provided, and it's quite probably cheaper and easier to provide it to remote locations by wireless means.

Is the Government right to propose a levy on copper lines to fund next generation access?

I fully agree with your comments on this.

Will the Government's plans for next generation access work?

They're sticking-plaster plans, rather than any long term solution. I think that, by and large, they probably will work, but we'll be having the same discussions again and again every couple of years.

If companies are providing the speed of access which they promise to consumers?

Setting aside the disgraceful 'unlimited' description which the big players use, yes they do, although naive users might expect more from the headline terms which are used.

The extent to which current regulation strikes the right balance between ensuring fair competition and encouraging investment in next generation networks?

Current (OFCOM) regulation is a mess. As you say, it doesn't impose any broadband USO on BT, but on the other hand it penalises BT by allowing LLU operators to cherry-pick the profitable bits of the network which they want to get involved in, leaving BT to cover the longer lines and the less well populated sections. Years ago, BT wanted to cable up the whole country, but were stopped by OFCOM on competition grounds.

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waltergmw

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 04:37:30 PM »

Thanks very much Eric,

I expect we agree that Government intervention into things they don't really understand, nor should they, coupled with civil servants of similar upbringing produces unforseen outcomes, most of which are undesirable!

Kind regards,
Walter
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BritBrat

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2009, 09:10:56 PM »

Whether the target for universal access to broadband at a speed of 2Mb/s by 2012 is ambitious enough?

In itself it is ambitious enough. It's fast enough for the things people need to do, as opposed to those things which they may want to do. The argument is really about how it's provided, and it's quite probably cheaper and easier to provide it to remote locations by wireless means.


I do not agree, well I do in a way, but if you target 2Meg by the time the goverment gets there it will be seen as slow.

So I think they should target as fast as possible and we may even keep up with the rest of the world.

If you want proof that goverment dont have a clue about internet technology just look at all the failed contracts.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 09:13:02 PM by BritBrat »
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kitz

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2009, 01:37:54 PM »

>> Whether the target for universal access to broadband at a speed of 2Mb/s by 2012 is ambitious enough?

Ive long said that the only real solution would be FTTH, but being realistic and knowing the huge costs involved then FTTC is the way to go... but it needs investment from other sources.

>> Is the Government right to propose a levy on copper lines to fund next generation access?

Totally agree with your comments.

>> Will the Government's plans for next generation access work?

hmmm it is a step forward, but I sometimes have doubts about how much they are in touch with the real world and unfortunately I dont think they have a real understanding of how adsl works nor its limitations.

>> f companies are providing the speed of access which they promise to consumers?

I think most of the ISPs are pretty upfront about access and predicted connection speeds.
More emphasis needs to be given with regards to hidden FUPs/throttling and action taken over the use of 'unlimited'.

>> The extent to which current regulation strikes the right balance between ensuring fair competition and encouraging investment in next generation networks?


Your comments are very well put, nothing much further to add other than I think OFCOM may have actually hindered BT with the Margin Squeeze test by keeping prices high in the remote areas, yet putting them at an unfair disadvantage in the more heavily populated areas.  I realise that the Market Access has now been revised, but think market 2 exchange status should also be re-visited.
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HPsauce

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2009, 03:52:05 PM »

I have an idea that may be relevant to this thread. I'd like to see it, but somehow I think it will get blocked.

Unbundled, modular broadband services. Taking a leaf from some ways the phone services run and integrating cable and copper (and fibre) with freedom to choose all elements from whichever provider you want.

It's a significant further step in deregulation. Here's how I'd see it work:

Firstly, all "local loop" access routes to homes and other premises, including Virgins "fibre" would be accessible to anyone. You would rent the path from your premises to the exchange and then choose what services to run over it. That would be your own personal bandwidth, restricted by equipment and/or ADSL limitations.

Second, you could buy multiple services and operate them at the same time. For example an ISP could provide you with an email connectivity service that would effectively be always-on but not necessarily high priority or large bandwidth. Another ISP could sell you gaming services with fast pings on a pay-as-you-go basis, and yet another could provide high-bandwidth for video streaming etc. etc.

The providers would obviously have to provide suitable bandwidth, QoS etc. to the exchange, possibly even sharing to get it done economically.

The telephone service already provides some elements of this with carrier pre-selection or prefix codes that you use to choose who carries your specific phone call, billing appropriately. It wouldn't be difficult to have your local equipment authenticate a session (maybe initiating billing) with a specific provider for specific traffic then automatically route that traffic whilst at the same time other types of traffic go via a different provider.

I'm not sure how clear that is, but it makes sense to me..... :baby:

PS I'm sure mobile broadband could be incorporated too.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 03:55:40 PM by HPsauce »
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waltergmw

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 12:33:30 AM »

Thanks very much everybody.
This committe obviously won't have a magic cure but it would be so much better if they absorbed the real facts and adopted practical standards.
The subject is quite complex enough without additional smokescreens and unrealistic speed targets for today let alone 2012.

Kind regards,
Walter
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orainsear

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2009, 03:37:53 PM »

Has any real consideration been given to Broadband over Power Line technology?
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roseway

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2009, 03:59:10 PM »

Has any real consideration been given to Broadband over Power Line technology?

I haven't heard anything recently, but I recall that the electricity companies did carry out some experiments a few years ago and then abandoned the idea as impracticable. I don't remember the details.
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orainsear

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2009, 04:08:48 PM »

Has any real consideration been given to Broadband over Power Line technology?

I haven't heard anything recently, but I recall that the electricity companies did carry out some experiments a few years ago and then abandoned the idea as impracticable. I don't remember the details.


I'm sure several years ago there was testing of the technology in Campbelltown on the Mull of Kintyre.

The IEEE working group seems to be pushing the idea along, and although I'm not particularly familiar with the pros and cons of the technology it would seem it could be a solution for some of the more remote areas.
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waltergmw

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Re: Offering for parliamentary C'tte re Broadband etc.
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2009, 04:58:59 PM »

I think it was what I still call the HydroBoard that did trials near Winchester in Hampshire and also in Scotland.
I can only assume that it was not thought to be a cost effective solution. It's a shame when quite a lot of tower lines have fibre twisted round around the top earth wire so every bulk supply point could be provided with internet connectivity.

Kind regards,
Walter
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