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[oldfogy]

Britain's biggest broadband supplier has been accused of limiting download speeds on its cheapest package without giving users a clear warning.

BT Broadband cuts the speed users can watch video services like the BBC iPlayer and YouTube at peak times.

A customer who has signed up for an up to 8 megabit per second package can have their speed cut to below 1Mbps. .............

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8077839.stm

[kitz]

lol...  thats nothing new and its something thats been known for a while.

Its rumoured that one of the reasons why BT was so keen on purchasing Plusnet a few years back, was that they (PN) had the best experience in using ellacoyas. In fact the top Ellacoya specialist in the UK actually worked at Plusnet.

I had a bit of a chuckle to myself a few weeks ago about a small 'spat' that had broken out between Virgin and BT on something that I subscribe to... it was like tit for tat between the 2 of them each calling the others products and hyping up their own.   

BT responded


Do you really think we would stop people watching Doctor Who, Friday Night with Jonathan Ross and Robin Hood on iPlayer? We don't. You can watch whatever programmes you want on iPlayer, whenever you want, whatever BT Total Broadband Option you're on.



I wouldnt be too surprised if this has now only just come to certain peoples attention as a result of that little outburst?


-------------------------


BTW... According to BBC link...  BT says


The clause in question says: "We do limit the speed of all video streaming to 896Kbps on our Option 1 product, during peak times only."


Just out of interest... what speed does I-player stream at anyhow?
I'm currently watching a test prog on an an unthrottled 24Mb connection and its only reached a maximum of a short bursts of around 512/768 kb, before settling down to around 128kbps

[orainsear]

Just out of interest... what speed does I-player stream at anyhow?

Various speeds depending on size and quality:

TV - HD - 3500 kbps   
TV - 1500 kbps   
TV - 800 kbps   
TV - 500 kbps   
Radio - 128 kbps


Edit: The first 'TV - 500 kbps' should have read 'TV - 1500 kbps'

[kitz]

Thanks orainsear, I couldnt seem to find that info on the site (must try harder) hence me opening a stream myself to check.

I was wondering if their 896Kbps allowance would cover the i-player stream rates.

[orainsear]

When you do one of their iPlayer diagnostic tests to see what it brings all that info up.

Just noticed an error my previous post - the top 500 kbps should be 1500 kbps.

So yes it looks like if there is throttling at 896 kbps then you won't be able to view the largest size or HD iPlayer streams.


Edit to remove spurious text

[BritBrat]

When you do one of their iPlayer diagnostic tests to see what it brings all that info up.

Just noticed an error my previous post - the top 500 kbps should be 1500 kbps.

So yes it looks like if there is throttling at 896 kbps then you won't be able to view the largest size or HD iPlayer streams.


Edit to remove spurious text

Thats a nice tester.

I am on O2 8M ADSL (Access)

BT responded


Do you really think we would stop people watching Doctor Who, Friday Night with Jonathan Ross and Robin Hood on iPlayer? We don't. You can watch whatever programmes you want on iPlayer, whenever you want, whatever BT Total Broadband Option you're on.

Nice read.

http://www.broadbandwatchdog.co.uk/news/120509-333



[attachment deleted by admin]

[kitz]

>> Nice read.

Yep thats the spat I mentioned above..   I'm pretty sure there was more than that though.

[orainsear]

It's not true that BT 'blocks' certain streaming speeds, we optimise them at certain times only to ensure customers get the best possible experience.

An interesting choice of words.  Effectively the traffic management policy, if implemented as has been suggested, does indeed prevent you from viewing the HD programmes on IPlayer.  Perhaps rather than responding to poorly worded and antagonistic criticisms they should be more forthcoming about what exactly it is that they are doing with their traffic management.

[jeffbb]

Hi
quote they should be more forthcoming about what exactly it is that they are doing with their traffic management.

Should is the operative word but then its not  their way .

Regards Jeff

[Ezzer]

Iwould think if thwe isp's are stuck with having to manage traffic by throttleing then wouldn't it be fair if there was a general concenus/ code of conduct as to a minimum speed beyond which throttling can go no further so things like I-player can at least work in any household as a minimum service.

I just my home internet for bbc, their I'player, facebook, this site, and the odd youtube, wikipedia. I don't download apart from the previously mentioned steaming
and i get throttling so I-player would stutter on a regular basis. still 4mb to the exchange 

[kitz]

The only ISP Im aware of that is fully open about their traffic shaping is Plusnet who do provide details of the minimum speeds.

Unfortunately for them though they get an awful lot of stick over how complicated it appears to be..  and some have even said that this complication has often deterred users signing up.   Not being funny but can you imagine if some of the mainstream ISPs attempted to do this and what confusion it would cause to their type of consumers.

Plusnets shaping and the amount of depends which product you are on..  Below is something that I first coded a few years back to try and attempt to make it easier for their users to understand.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/plusnet_shaping.htm

I wouldnt be too surprised if BTs shaping is very similar depending on account type - reason being that they both use Ellacoyas.... and its pretty well known that one of the reasons that BT were so interested in buying Plusnet is for the fact that a couple of their staff where considered the best Ellacoya experts in the UK.


/side track

The Ellacoyas are actually quite hard to get right and can often cause the ISP and their customers a lot of pain when trying to configure. PN went through a period of pain and you sometimes see evidence of it occurring with other ISPs.  I recall shortly before BT bought out PN that there were nightly occurrences of reported certain low http throughput.  BTB doesnt use centrals (Central Plus) so it cant possibly have occurred through them having a problem with Central Capacity. 

I also wonder about PNs trial of RIN which some users were invited to use after being taken over by BT... funny how on the odd occasion when on RIN I  and several saw some of the same throughput issues also being experienced by BT customers despite PNs customers on RIN meant to be not going through the same ellacoyas.  ..  Add in the fact that a PN customer found himself presented with a phorm screen...  I do sometimes wonder if the Plusnet RIN trial also had some benefits for BT and their use of the Ellacoyas

[orainsear]

wouldn't it be fair if there was a general concenus/ code of conduct as to a minimum speed beyond which throttling can go no further

That's an interesting point.  I'd imagine that the continued growth for demand and the hourly/daily/weekly variability of that demand makes setting limits a somewhat complicated task.  Does anyone know roughly the shortfall between the current networks maximum bandwidth capability and the maximum potential demand?

If traffic management is not going to go away perhaps they could come up with a labelling system akin to supermarket ingredient labels - make the slightly 'hidden ingredients' clear and easy for all to understand so you can make an informed choice.

There are also recent rumblings within BE about involving the user group in consultations to discuss potential traffic management solutions...