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Author Topic: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?  (Read 10632 times)

feonix

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2009, 11:58:55 AM »

Aah so they are testing ADSL2+ Annex M, interesting.

Can anyone test it or?

They are, and LLU SDSL circuits too.

TBH it opened quite a can of worms when it started to be tested in the real world - so few modem chipsets have an accurate implementation of the AnnexM protocols that it's almost impossible to troubleshoot when something goes wrong. Some manufacturers have privately decided not to support it in hardware (and didn't say anything until Tiscali started complaining to them about their ADSL2+ kit not working as described) - and it really, really shows up bad DSL lines, bad internal building wiring, dodgy NTE sockets and a whole host of stuff that standard ADSL takes in its stride and is resilient to. So at the moment, it's kind of a white elephant - available to some Tiscali resellers as a product to sell on to businesses (who usually have their own onsite tech support), but only resellers who are good at their jobs, know how to do 1st line diagnostics properly and actually care enough to fix problems when they come up. As you can imagine, that's not many!
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jid

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2009, 12:58:08 PM »

So you receive your broadband through a reseller of Tiscali?

Sorry you lost me a bit there :-[
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

feonix

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2009, 01:14:00 PM »

So you receive your broadband through a reseller of Tiscali?

Sorry you lost me a bit there :-[

I do. I'm technically a Pipex customer. Got LLU'd over two years ago now and when the offer came to 'test' new Tiscali LLU profiles for work, how could I resist? :)
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jid

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2009, 01:54:37 PM »

Lucky you, I have been waiting for Tiscali ADSL2+ for years (lol) and still waiting.  :lol:

Hopefully it won't be too much longer now :)
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

UncleUB

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2009, 03:42:55 PM »

Lucky you, I have been waiting for Tiscali ADSL2+ for years (lol) and still waiting.  :lol:


Did you have a router wired to your pram .   :lol:

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jid

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2009, 04:07:05 PM »

Lucky you, I have been waiting for Tiscali ADSL2+ for years (lol) and still waiting.  :lol:


Did you have a router wired to your pram .   :lol:



Wireless connectivity on the pram  ;D :lol:
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Jamie

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kitz

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2009, 08:33:59 PM »

>> All depends on how T & TT combine their LLU platforms.

With AOL, it didnt seem to take too long for them to merge the AOL and TT Centrals for the IPStream customers.
It would make economical sense for them to get rid of any tiscali centrals that are out of the 2 year contract and merge with their own asap.
If Tiscali have any newer pipes, they can either wait till their contract is up, or buy out the contract... guessing they will probably 'wind them down'.

I cant think off the top of my head for sure, but I dont think TT use datastream these days..  so that could take a while longer.  Im taking a wild guess that they will eventually move those customers over to IPStream (or LLU if available) as Datastream seems to be a bit of a dead duck these days and theres only really tiscali that uses it. However.. in view of the fact that tiscalis datastream network is fairly big they could always decide to keep it going.

They will likely merge the TT/Tiscali backhaul at some point as they did with AOL/TT, but that will take longer due to timescales and work required at lots of exchanges.  From what Ive seen, they seem to have kept the AOL MSANs in the exchanges with the AOL customers on them.. and just merged into the one backhaul pipe.

>> my download and upload speeds are significantly higher than that test seems to be able to measure ;-)

I have the same problem with speedtest.net.. in particular the maidenhead server never seems to be able to cope with the additional upstream.

>> so few modem chipsets have an accurate implementation of the AnnexM

Do you happen to know which routers.
Ive been on Annex_M for a while now The speedtouches and netgears seem ok for me.  Dont think Ive seen any Be users complain of problems with routers theyve used.
Currently getting 2,649 upstream sync on a ST585v6.  Must admit that the netgear shaves a bit off that..  and the TG585v7 seems to shave about 200 kbps off.
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feonix

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2009, 02:45:35 PM »

>> All depends on how T & TT combine their LLU platforms.

With AOL, it didnt seem to take too long for them to merge the AOL and TT Centrals for the IPStream customers.
It would make economical sense for them to get rid of any tiscali centrals that are out of the 2 year contract and merge with their own asap.
If Tiscali have any newer pipes, they can either wait till their contract is up, or buy out the contract... guessing they will probably 'wind them down'.

I cant think off the top of my head for sure, but I dont think TT use datastream these days..  so that could take a while longer.  Im taking a wild guess that they will eventually move those customers over to IPStream (or LLU if available) as Datastream seems to be a bit of a dead duck these days and theres only really tiscali that uses it. However.. in view of the fact that tiscalis datastream network is fairly big they could always decide to keep it going.

They will likely merge the TT/Tiscali backhaul at some point as they did with AOL/TT, but that will take longer due to timescales and work required at lots of exchanges.  From what Ive seen, they seem to have kept the AOL MSANs in the exchanges with the AOL customers on them.. and just merged into the one backhaul pipe.

>> my download and upload speeds are significantly higher than that test seems to be able to measure ;-)

I have the same problem with speedtest.net.. in particular the maidenhead server never seems to be able to cope with the additional upstream.

>> so few modem chipsets have an accurate implementation of the AnnexM

Do you happen to know which routers.
Ive been on Annex_M for a while now The speedtouches and netgears seem ok for me.  Dont think Ive seen any Be users complain of problems with routers theyve used.
Currently getting 2,649 upstream sync on a ST585v6.  Must admit that the netgear shaves a bit off that..  and the TG585v7 seems to shave about 200 kbps off.

Well, Tiscali is busy migrating its Data and IPstream customers onto LLU wherever possible so I think that one is a slowly reducing problem for TT. Give them enough time and they won't have any circuits on BTs network as it is...

Backhaul merging in theory should be fairly simple, but it will be rather expensive for TT due to the sheer size of what Tiscali actually have (and use).

As to routers - Speedtouch are underpowered, it's been proven time and again they're not capable of holding the same speeds as other brands. Cisco have unofficially decided not to 'support' AnnexM on any hardware due to component choices (even though they advertise it), about the best are Netgear and Zyxel - with the Zyxels in the lead...
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jid

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2009, 03:04:53 PM »

Feonix,

I have a D Link DSL-2740B and it support Annex M, not sure how it runs on it as I don't have an ADSL2+ service.

You will see various posts on the forum about it. It uses a Broadcom chipset and is very reliable, especially it seems, on longer lines.
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

GunJack

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2009, 11:57:10 PM »

Ey up all..

couple of things in this thread interest me, being a tiscali LLU customer..

1. I hope this means I can get ADSL2+ sooner rather than later  ;)

2. rationalising of exchange equipment - I have expressed concerns over this on the dslzone forums, does this mean that sudenly throttling will come into play as more customers are squeezed onto less DSLAMs ?? no-one can really give a good steer on this issue

3. TT's forums seem more technically aware and helpful than tiscali's, so how long before we get access to that level of service ??

...and hopefully some of these things will be answered as the detail emerges from TT (if it ever does...). Oh, and I like my D-Link 2640B router, especially since I found out that DMT v8 works with it :)
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kitz

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2009, 01:22:50 AM »

Hi gunjack and welcome.

Tiscali MSANs are already adsl2+ capable, its just that Tiscali dont really offer it yet as a product.  IMHO most likely because their backhauls seem to come under some strain as it is on <8Mb.

I would imagine that TT would look at bringing them up to date though, although how soon this would be I dont know.. it did take a lil while with AOL bringing them up to date with Max.

>> rationalising of exchange equipment

I would imagine (at least with LLU) that they would do similar as what they did with the AOL takeover.
Any AOL customers remained on the AOL MSAN, what they do appear to have done though is merge the backhaul.

Theres a pic on the exchange equipment page towards the bottom which shows a pic of the fibre optic backhaul.
Although its not too clear from that pic..  but that particular exchange has an AOL MSAN and also a TT MSAN.
The bottom backhaul was easynets..  but the one above it shows how both the orange fibre from both MSANs went to the same backhaul.  Theres a short explanation of which is which next to the pic.

However Tiscali Wholesale have their own backhaul network..  TT have Opal...  so I would imagine that merging the 2 would take far longer than what it did with AOL who didnt have their own backhaul and instead used a carrier.

TT's MSANs are MPF, whilst tiscali have SMPF (as do AOL) so keeping the 2 MSANs separate makes some sense.

>> TT's forums seem more technically aware and helpful than tiscali's,

Yes - at one point TT were baaaaad..  but they seem to have at least learnt some lessons and tried to improve on them.
They still have a way to go..  but are much improved to what they used to be.
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GunJack

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2009, 07:11:57 AM »

hanx kitz, gad to be on board  ;D

..and also for the info, will check it out  ;)
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jid

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2009, 10:11:35 AM »

Tiscali do offer ADSL2+ for business customers over their LLU network, but as Kitz mentioned, it may not be possible for them to do this as they may not have the bandwidth to support it for consumers yet.

We cross our fingers in hope.

Quote
TT's MSANs are MPF, whilst tiscali have SMPF (as do AOL) so keeping the 2 MSANs separate makes some sense.

Kitz, I thought Tiscali provided my Line rental via MPF? Does Tiscali have both?
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

kitz

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Re: Good news for Tiscali subscribers ?
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2009, 10:26:19 AM »

>> Kitz, I thought Tiscali provided my Line rental via MPF? Does Tiscali have both?

Yes they do...  sorry if my comment wasnt clear with that statement.

What I meant is that with Tiscali & AOL you can just buy broadband if you want via SMPF
Try doing that with TalkTalk - they are all about offering phone and broadband as a package.

TT is fabled for their slamming of dsl lines as some customers who have a TT phone only have found when their dsl with another provider suddenly stops working after TT have installed a new MSAN into their exchange.

Its TT who proudly boast that they dont need a MAC if you migrate to them....  and something that I feel is wrong.. and should be further regulated by OFCOM.

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