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[waltergmw]

@ Kitz,

This seems a little confusing as all the Refs I've found so far (and the one Zen sell labelled ZEN585V7 VANILLA with a CUP DSLWUK 683 SLE 3) are all wireless versions with a single articulated external "stick" antenna.

Kind regards,
Walter

[kitz]

>> This seems a little confusing

It does indeed.. but I think its all a bit historical anyhow because both accounts are now advertised as coming with a  "Free wireless 4-port router " then that to me would imply they are just shipping the TG585v7s now.

I know they paid to have their own firmware version with TR-69 so that it is much easier for the EU to set up, Therefore it probably makes sense for them to ship all these routers now and buy in bulk.

Also according to this page, the only current one is the TG585v7

[UncleUB]

Thanks for the info guys.

Would this model be ok for for my long line. ?

[waltergmw]

Hi UncleUB,

Using my recent experience, the 585V7 is the safe bet. However if, and ONLY if, your line was reasonably quiet, you might get slightly better performance from the 2Wire.
(2wire are not the easiest to find in the UK although BT Business ADSL lines seem to have them.)

Later today I will post the current performance data for this long line in the other thread.

Kind regards,
Walter

[UncleUB]

Hi Walter,

these are my current line stats,don't know whether they tell anything about the 'quietness' of the line.

 Line Mode G.DMT   Line State Show Time 
 Latency Type Interleave   Line Up Time 23:15:32:22 
 Line Coding Trellis On   Line Up Count 5 
   
 Statistics Downstream Upstream 
 Line Rate 2240 Kbps 448 Kbps 
 Noise Margin 4.8 dB 11.0 dB 
 Line Attenuation 63.5 dB 31.5 dB 
 Output Power 17.6 dBm 12.2 dBm 
 K (number of bytes in DMT frame) 71 15 
 R (number of check bytes in RS code word) 16 16 
 S (RS code word size in DMT frame) 2 8 
 D (interleaver depth) 16 4 
 Super Frames 120183589  120183587   
 Super Frame Errors 16174  1632   
 RS Words 4086242038  484689577   
 RS Correctable Errors 40679875  12364   
 RS Uncorrectable Errors 83004  0   
 HEC Errors 14715  0   
 OCD Errors 170  0   
 LCD Errors 0  0   
 ES Errors 0  0 

[waltergmw]

Hi again UncleUB,

Kitz will probably be much better to explain this in detail but I think it's the noise spikes which really affect the different modems' performances.
If you look at some of the graphs in http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=4399.45
you will see they are all over the place. Whereas the ones now are absolutely flat lines.
Note also that we now have a constant noise margin of 6 dB whereas yours is less at 4.8 dB and, as the dB is a logarithmic measurement, that's quite a difference.

It's also important to realise we're dealing with (Lies, damned lies and) statistics. The routerstats data that comes from a 2wire is only to the nearest whole dB whereas the data I obtained from the DG834GT had a resolution of 0.1 dB and the sample time is only 15 seconds, so there's a very good chance that some spikes could be missed.
However in my latest examples, the line is dead flat for many many hours so it might be reasonable to say we would have seen at least one spike of over 1 dB during the period if any had happened.
It took me some time to realise that just because Routerstats joins the 15 second plots in a straight line, it DOES NOT mean that the actual noise margin is an absolutely constant figure.
Bearing in mind the router is (I think) averaging the noise margins of all the tone frequencies in use, it would be quite astonishing if the value did remain constant.

The decision you have to make is whether your line is stable enough to take advantage of the 2wire, or more accurately the AR7 chipset and 2wire's firmware.
My inclination would be to take a conservative (small c) aproach and not to risk the 2wire.
Now lets see what others suggest !

Kind regards,
Walter

[UncleUB]

thanks for the explanation Walter.

I know I'm sounding a bit of a thicko here,but which router is the 2wire one(is that the name of the router or......

You have said that the 585v7 is a safe bet,I take it that is not the 2wire one.

Since my last re-sync 23 days ago(which was caused by a power cut) my snr has been between 4.5 and 5.5

[roseway]

2Wire is a company which makes rather good, but rather expensive, routers (among other things).

The 585v7 is a safe bet, and so is the DG834v4. Personally I would vote for the latter, because it has a much better web configuration interface - Speedtouch/Thomson routers have interfaces which are pretty, but a bit obscure to find your way around.

[UncleUB]

I see  Thanks Eric,

The 585v7 is a safe bet,

Its just if I decide to go with Plusnet( which is looking more likely,purely on cost) that is the free router they supply.

[waltergmw]

I agree with Eric but had stayed with the Thompson as I think it was TD who started the thread and is changing to Zen who use the 585V7 although they don't object to Netgear ones.
Both work with DMT tool and Routerstats.
As with most modems you can get used to the artistic influence of the firmware designers !

K R
Walter

[UncleUB]

as I think it was TD who started the thread

My apologies for jumping into your thread TD. 

[tuftedduck]

No worries, unkyUb, I have been following your queries and learning a lot....

Was going to ask............and in anticipation of moving to Zen.
It would make sense to have the hardware to hand before the actual migration.
The question is, if I were to buy the 585v7 from the Zen site, would it be "chipped" in some way so as to make it inoperable with another ISP if I were to ever contemplate another move ?

[roseway]

No, Zen don't do that sort of thing. Possibly, if you were to buy the router from them at the time of migration, they would set it up for you so you could just plug it in and go, but I'm not sure about that. I any case, it wouldn't be locked.

[tuftedduck]

Thank you............another hurdle out of the way....

[orainsear]

The question is, if I were to buy the 585v7 from the Zen site, would it be "chipped" in some way so as to make it inoperable with another ISP if I were to ever contemplate another move ?

I'm pretty sure Zen don't lock their routers.

To be honest if you are going to buy a 585v7 I would suggest comparing prices.  You could get exactly the same bit of kit from elsewhere for £20 cheaper although I suppose that if you were to buy one from Zen that you may have a slightly easier time of things if it failed, assuming that they very quickly send out a new one (you may want to check that with Zen).

Setting one up is an absolute doddle by the way.

Although others have had good experiences with the 585v7 I'd be tempted to stay away from it myself.  I don't think that the case design does it any favours with - the vents are on the underside, and it uses a somewhat inferior chipset.  For me it's been a step backwards from the 585v6, which you sadly cannot buy new now, but there are usually a few available on ebay.