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Author Topic: Long Line Question  (Read 3899 times)

indigobanana

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Long Line Question
« on: April 19, 2009, 01:25:07 AM »

Something that's always bugged me...

I know someone who lives out in the sticks (infact they're on the same exchange as me) but apparently they are so far that BT says they are unable to support broadband. I know that an engineer was sent out to them to try and connect them up, and marked the line as too long to support it.

The (probably silly) question is.... do BT still leave the ADSL connection active? as I believe that sorting out their internal wiring and removing the ring wire (its an old converted farmhouse) should definately be enough to obtain a usable ADSL signal. Plus, the router they were testing with was probably not up to the job. If not, then would there be any way of trying to persuade BT to check the line again after the modifications?

edit
From the kitz adsl checker:
Line has over 75dB loss, ADSL unlikely, but will be tested by an engineer on-site

and interestingly:
The check identified another service on your line which may prevent you from ordering a new ADSL connection. Examples are : Existing adsl connection, DACs, LLU, TPON etc  (or failed engineer visit maybe??)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 01:30:03 AM by indigobanana »
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Jamie :)

waltergmw

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Re: Long Line Question
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2009, 08:41:47 AM »

Hi Jamie,

I have been trying for several years to help many people such as you describe in and around Ewhurst Surrey.
In the early days of BT they decided to economise on "new electronic exchanges" and in this case by asset stripping the old manual Exchange
and feeding everyone from Cranleigh THCN. Even at that time the line conditions and losses of the outliers caused significant voice problems.
Conversely BT did install several mini-exchanges later so there is an extraordinary mixture of not-spots and good spots in our area.
There are now many properties which suffer but are much closer to one of the newer exchanges but BT are adamant that they will not re-cable or re-shape their exchange boundary lines. I suspect much of this is BT defending their profit margins by not setting a precedent. (I expect there are a few successful changes but Drymere is the only example that I'm aware of
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/i/3249.html ) Although BT Openreach is a separate entity in many respects it is still part of the BT Group and has to compete for investment funds just as all parts of the group including some that are commercial liabilities. In some respects this situation is not dissimilar from our railways but "crashes" are not so obviously disastrous. Some isolated local communities have launched successful schemes but there are worries on commercial viability and in some cases incompatible systems. We also don't yet have an "ABTA type scheme" for recovery of larger commercial operations such as the T situation.

Since those times in the mid eighties much of the plant has remained but technology has improved so that some quite remarkable ADSL services are a practical, if rather slow, proposition such as the one we've been discussing in the other current long line thread. However there are still double figure properties here that are quite impossible and this includes two (private) schools. I had initially hoped that BT would be co-operative and indeed up to about 2004 BT did occasionally "go the extra mile". However it is obviously a matter of diminishing returns at increasing expense. The regulatory system also does not seem to help the situaton either. Sadly there have been several instances where BT have become deliberately obdurate even when a local group have offered to provide additional payments. BT do not have a "Universal Service Obligation" for broadband but they still do for a dial-up PSTN. Other USO proposals are being discussed but in our area are impossible with non-existant cellular coverage nor would substantial investments provide adequate services.

Furthermore the BT database of ADSL parameters seems to become less accurate over time especially for fully LLUed lines. Your line could well have had earlier attempts which have caused the record to be marked as impossible.

We are now in a situation where there is some limited competition but where there is still a network monopoly in the less profitable sparsely populated areas and little is likely to change unless government funding for at least FTTC if not FTTH is available. (Listen to current announcements and the budget next week.)

Regarding your detailed questions I will guess at an answer but there are others who can hopefully correct me if I am wrong.
BT do not leave a line connected to a DSLAM or MSAN if they are not obtaining revenue from it. The first thing is to get the database error corrected or verified as valid and then remove the offending faility. One of the most common problems are DACS line splitting units. If you have the patience of Job and keep pestering them via a fully co-operative small ISP (Guess which one ?) then you might just be successful. You might need to order a new BT line or pay for re-routing one at costs of at least three figures. You probably need to engineer a new shortest-distance drop wire and master socket and run the modem directly from it. You also need to design the route for minimum electrical noise. You may need to experiment with different modems and you'll see here that either 2wire or possibly Netgear DGN 834 V 3 modems are often good performers in these conditions.

I hope this helps but do drop me a PM with more specific information if you wish.

Kind regards,
Walter
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kitz

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Re: Long Line Question
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2009, 06:46:19 PM »

>> do BT still leave the ADSL connection active?

I dont honestly know.  My guess would be no... but if they have already wired it up - who knows?

>> as I believe that sorting out their internal wiring and removing the ring wire...

You could always check - they will certainly have removed the ISP routing via SSB so you wont be able to get to the internet... but if it is still wired up then you should be able to get sync and some line stats.

>> and interestingly:  The check identified another service on your line which may prevent.....

Once upon a time I could have been able to tell you, but BTw tightened the rules and now anything specific has to be replaced with that generalised statement, so thats all the info I get now. :/  This is also about the time that BT Openreach engineers were no longer allowed access to Woosh either.  ???
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orainsear

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Re: Long Line Question
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 05:02:14 PM »

If you don't have any luck with the ADSL side of things it may be worth while investigating the various 3G mobile broadband services and determining if there is any coverage in the area.
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