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Author Topic: Block terminal connector  (Read 7048 times)

keithiopia

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Block terminal connector
« on: April 13, 2009, 05:08:32 PM »

Hello!

I've just been looking through the information about BT sockets etc. but couldn't find my block terminal connector on the list.
After a quick google I've discovered I've got a GPO BT20/4 made of bakelite which date back to the mid-50s. Are these bad for adsl connections?

Thanks!
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waltergmw

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2009, 05:27:01 PM »

Hi keithiopia and welcome,

I think you already know the answer ! No only should you get a new NTE5 master socket fitted but probably much of the phone wiring as well - especially if the drop wire is a flat twin pair.

Kind regards,
Walter
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HPsauce

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2009, 08:38:27 PM »

The connector itself is probably made of much higher quality materials than any modern unit, so provided the contacts are clean probably wouldn't pose a problem. The ageing non-twisted wiring likely to be associated with it is another matter however.  :'(
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keithiopia

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2009, 09:32:38 PM »

Hello!
Thanks for your quick responses.
Strangely I do have a NTE5 master socket, but the wire running between it and the block terminal is a thin brown braided one, i'm not sure if that's what you call a flat twin pair.
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waltergmw

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2009, 11:12:15 PM »

Hi again keithiopia,

I expect Ezzer will say that BT do not normally supply screened (braided) cable, and that if they had, they would probably have replaced the terminal block with an NTE5 Master Socket first.
This suggests that the wiring is your own rather than BT's. However that in itself isn't necessarily a problem.

The drop wire - i.e. the cable from the outside of your house to the Terminal block could be more of a problem.
A flat twin cable is precisely that and used to be installed in the days of the GPO. It consists of two cores joined together but running in parallel along the whole length of the cable.
More modern cables normally have a circular sheath, have much smaller diameter coloured cores and are twisted to ballance out induced noise. This is important to get higher speed broadband connections.

If you can tell us the make and model number of your modem together with your ISP we can give you instructions on how to examine the line statistics of your modem which in turn will determine if rewiring speed benefits might be possible.

Kind regards,
Walter
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keithiopia

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2009, 11:47:35 PM »

Hello!

I could try and get some photos of the drop wire and of the wiring between the NTE5 and block terminal if you like, my description is probably way off. If that wire isn't BT's then it must have been put in quite a while ago, we've never changed it and moved in around 14 years ago.
I've got my WAG354G line stats here:
Code: [Select]
Item Value
ADSL Line Type GDMT
ADSL Line Coding INTERLEAVED
Line Attenuation (Down):13  (Up):7
Noise Margin (Down):10  (Up):16
Total Output Power (Down):0  (Up):0
Current State DownStr: 8160(K)  UpStr: 448(K)
undefined UP
FEC(FAST) (Near):0  (Far):0
FEC(INTERL) (Near):19652  (Far):240258
CRC(FAST) (Near):0  (Far):0
undefined (Near):252  (Far):6787
HEC(FAST) (Near):0  (Far):0
HEC(FAST) (Near):0  (Far):0
Showtime last(sec) 9562
ADSL FW Version 0.52
ADSL Board Type Annex A
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waltergmw

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2009, 12:01:36 AM »

Hi yet again keithiopia,

I wonder if you actually live in the telephone exchange ? !!!!!!!!
The figures you've provided are first class unless you are with an ISP who provides ADSL2 speeds potentially up to around 18,000 kbps.

I.e. there seems very little point in doing anything at all unless the latter case is correct.

Kind regards,
Walter
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Ezzer

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2009, 12:07:37 AM »

your stats look good. the block terminal you Mention wi;; probably be the type with big chunky fuses inside, no probs for broadband in fact due to the size of all the conductors it's possibly a tiny benifit.

Drop wire 3 which is the old 2 wire type in a grey insulator is usualy replaced if working on that part of the line as the overhead bit can in time suffer from uv degridation and start to crack and lead to corrsion which would affect your normal telephony at the same time, noisy line and the like.

there are other more resiliant types of old dropwire, with black insulation, or even with blue (normaly used in the vicinity of high voltage lines, very large diameter copper, which broke my fave pair of cutters once  :()

Drop wire 10 is very resiliant and the more common type now found, has 2 pairs of wires, 3 steel canteneries for mechanical support and a strong thick layer of outer insulation.

Some times looking at drop wires off a pole you can easly see the difference between dropwire 3 and 10 from the ground quite easly

Bear in mind just because you might have dropwire3 feeding your property dosnt mean you have a broadband issue here
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kitz

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2009, 12:39:48 AM »

Your stats are good :)
In fact they're similar to my own, so you should get near maximum speeds on adsl2+.  In fact that looks like an LLU'd line (possibly Tiscali) from the sync speed.

It doesnt look like you have any problems with the physical line.
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How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

keithiopia

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2009, 01:48:21 AM »

Well that's reassuring, I'll not touch my wires then.
Even though it's almost 2am, the Namesco speed test says i'm getting
Quote
Download Speed: 4746 kbps (593.3 KB/sec ) Upload Speed: 376 kbps (47 KB/sec )
and the thinkbroadband test says
Quote
Speed Down: 4542.60 Kbps ( 4.4 Mbps )  Speed Up:373.75 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )

That download speed can be halved even if it's 10 or 11pm.
I'm around 490m away from my exchange in a straight line, but it is via Eclipse, not LLU
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kitz

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2009, 09:56:07 PM »

Theres basically 2 sorts of speeds

Sync speed - which is the speed at which you connect to the exchange at.  From this we can deduce the condition of your line - and along with other line stats - the condition of your line.

Throughput speed - which is the 'realtime' speed that you see when downloading.  Theres various factors that can affect this, but slower throughput can be down to congestion either at the ISP level or at the exchange.

You can check for BTw based exchange contention here.

>> but it is via Eclipse, not LLU


It was your sync speed of 8160 that led me to believe that you may be LLU'd. 
BT wholesale maximum sync speed is 8128... and for an interleaved line it is usually 7616 (but a very good line can under certain circumstances still see up to 8128).

Eclipse have been stealthily transferring users over to Tiscali LLU for a couple of years now and sometimes wont even admit to the customer that their line is LLU'd.

Best way of checking is either seeing if you can log into the BTw performance tester.. LLU connections wont be able to connect.
or another test is that the Tiscali MSANs arent configured to accept LLC-Based settings in your router and will only connect using VC-Mux Based.   
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keithiopia

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2009, 12:42:32 AM »

Thanks for explaining all of this to me.

It's interesting what you say about LLU, whenever I run the BTw performance tester I get this message: "The system is currently busy. Please try again shortly, however if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider."
Tiscali LLU is available at my exchange apparently.

The plusnet exchange checker says there are no known capacity problems on my exchange (virtual paths), is that the bit I'm meant to look at?
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kitz

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2009, 10:25:10 AM »

>> The plusnet exchange checker says there are no known capacity problems on my exchange (virtual paths), is that the bit I'm meant to look at?

Yes - thats the one...  but it only reports the status of BTWholesale based lines.

If tiscali LLU is available at your exchange, then there is a strong possibility that you are on Tiscali Wholesale rather then BT Wholesale.
iirc Eclipse started moving some lines over to Tiscali about 2 years ago, but one thing is certain and that is they kept very quiet about it and many customers arent aware they are now on LLU rather than BTIPStream.

If you are ok with changing settings in your router then there are a couple of other things that you could do to check for sure, and thats either attempting

1) a BT test login.  - You wont be able to connect to the bt network if youre on LLU.  and/or
2) Changing the router setting from VC Mux Based to LLC Based.  - BT will allow you to connect via LLC Based - the tiscali MSANs wont.
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keithiopia

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2009, 04:12:35 PM »

Hello again,

I've actually just changed router because my linksys died. Now on a Netgear DG834PN. The stats from that are:
Code: [Select]
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8032 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 13.0 db 6.5 db
Noise Margin 15.3 db 20.0 db

I tried changing to LLC based multiplexing like you suggested, it won't connect to Eclipse, I just get message saying 'LCP is allowed to come up'. Interestingly my modem stats are still showing as the same when I do that.
I also tried the BT test login by changing my username to 'bt_test@startup_domain' but the router tells me that 'CHAP authentication failed'.

I guess this confirms that I am on LLU. Sneaky.
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jeffbb

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Re: Block terminal connector
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2009, 06:35:24 PM »

not much gets past Kitz  ;D
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