Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!  (Read 18591 times)

MollyCoddle

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« on: February 26, 2009, 12:21:08 PM »

I am getting almost daily re-syncs when the SNRM gets to 6-8db. These do not show up on the Router log, today I have been told by my ISP, that BT do not see these either. The only things the router log shows is when ISP/BT tests have been performed or if I re-boot the router, typically:-

Thu, 2009-02-26 10:48:32 - LCP down.
Thu, 2009-02-26 10:48:55 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2009-02-26 10:48:55 - LCP is allowed to come up. (Netgear DG834GT running 1.02.16 official software)

The re-syncs are indicated on Routerstats log and chart (last dip and SNRM jump, see below), and on the DMT log in 'diagnose' mode.

My ISP are taking the position that they do not know where RouterStats and DMT are getting their info from.

Any ideas as to the reliability of RouterStats and DMT?

MC

Modified for correct jpg

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 12:24:05 PM by MollyCoddle »
Logged

HPsauce

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2606
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2009, 12:56:47 PM »

We need to see the sync speed graph alongside the noise one, covering the same time.
Logged

MollyCoddle

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2009, 01:09:50 PM »

HP,

?Its on the chart in red. As I overlay it on the same chart I do not capture it seperately.

If you need it, I can show the RouterStats log. DMT diagnose log also shows the re-sync and speedd

MC
Logged

HPsauce

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2606
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2009, 01:15:29 PM »

Ah, missed the scale on the right!
Logged

HPsauce

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2606
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2009, 01:19:59 PM »

What is interesting about that is the way it changes and the timing.
It's just like any normal early-evening drop in SNRM due to lights etc, but on a much larger scale.
There are no big jumps as you might see if there's a single source.

So it appears that your line may be unduly sensitive, but why?
Have you checked what you neighbours experience, that would be very valuable narrowing it down to your line or neighbourhood?
Logged

orainsear

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 635
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2009, 06:42:54 PM »

Can you post some line stats, your router logs and also the corresponding DMT and Routerstats logs?

Routerstats and DMT are fairly reliable unless they have been seriously misconfigured.  Both work by pulling the data from the router so they will only be relaying and logging the same information that the router is generating.
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33879
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2009, 07:53:46 PM »

Ive no idea why your ISP isnt seeing the resyncs.
There are occasions when routerstats can blip and it looks like a d/c but I notice your sync speed has changed therefore it must have resync'd?   The one at about 16:00 most certainly.

Your ISP doesnt do SRA (Seamless RAte Adaption) does it?
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

MollyCoddle

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2009, 11:32:33 PM »

@ HPsauce,
I have posted my typical SNRM previously, I almost always get such a wide range. These re-syncs have only been occuring the last 2 weeks, that was after a 3 week(ish) period of syncing at 4500-4800, still nowhere near my syncing before last September.
Modified>
I experienced similar 20Jan through 25Jan. At that time and again now, downstream interleaving dropped to 8, other times it has been 16.
<Modified
No one lives near me, well 1/2 mile closer to the exchange, they are not ADSL savvy.

@ orainsear,
I'll shortly give you the DMT diagnosis file (this is a bit limited, as my ISP's latest request was for me to capture HEC only), RouterStat log and my Netgear log for the last re-sync at 18:00 yesterday (as per the last SNM jump on my first post chart).

@ kitz,
I am told they do not support SRA, its Idnet by the way.
I have been diplomatic in my post, because I know I am getting re-syncs as per RouterStats and DMT data, I also experience outage during the re-sync and post sync I see huge reductions in response times with my server to server applications I am running.
In addition, Its unlikely that both RouterStats and DMT are wrong as they show the same data, yet Idnet are minded to consider the RouterStats and DMT logs I have sent them to be incorrect.

Thanks for your responses,

MC
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 12:06:09 AM by MollyCoddle »
Logged

MollyCoddle

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2009, 11:51:55 PM »

Attached are the EDITED (reduce size) DMT and RouterStats for the 18:00 re-sync on 25 Feb, which Idnet say is not seen by their router logs, nor BT's equiv.

Below is the Netgear log;

I power cycled for better sync speed at 10:45 on 25Feb, the 25Feb@13:38 and 26Feb@10:48 is Idnet/BT testing

Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:29 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:40 - CHAP authentication success
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:46 - Send out NTP request to time-g.netgear.com
Wed, 2009-02-25 10:46:26 - Receive NTP Reply from time-g.netgear.com
Wed, 2009-02-25 10:46:50 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Wed, 2009-02-25 10:45:39 - Router start up
Wed, 2009-02-25 10:45:39 - Router start up
Wed, 2009-02-25 13:38:21 - LCP down.
Wed, 2009-02-25 13:38:49 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2009-02-25 13:38:49 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2009-02-25 13:38:57 - CHAP authentication success
Thu, 2009-02-26 09:47:40 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Thu, 2009-02-26 10:06:51 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Thu, 2009-02-26 10:48:32 - LCP down.
Thu, 2009-02-26 10:48:55 - Initialize LCP.
Thu, 2009-02-26 10:48:55 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Thu, 2009-02-26 10:49:06 - CHAP authentication success
Thu, 2009-02-26 15:54:38 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Thu, 2009-02-26 15:55:58 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2


MC

[attachment deleted by admin]
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33879
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2009, 10:22:15 AM »

>> I am told they do not support SRA, its Idnet by the way.

Thanks, I couldnt tell from your IP - No, they dont do SRA.

>> as my ISP's latest request was for me to capture HEC only

CRCs are more important when looking at line stats. HEC can sometimes be corrected,(like FECs to a much lesser extent) and if not will often record as a CRC anyhow.

But what is interesting notice this about the recorded HEC count.


1235566767,3616,10.3,2774,1948
1235566888,2304,15.6,5163,0


See how not only the sync speed changed - but also the HECs reset to zero - so obviously a reconnection has taken place.
Its unlikely both DMT and routerstats would also show blips at the same time if they were an error.

The spot on 18:00 one is interesting - this may be a wild goose chase...  but does this by any chance happen at 18:00 each day?   Im just thinking of the infamous 24hr boots at midnight by many a netgear router and just wanted to rule that one out.

Im afraid I really dont understand why though that the netgear isnt recording it in its logs... nor why idnet say they cant either.
Something is definitely happening... the chance in sync speed, the change back to your target SNR and the resetting of HECs all point that the router has resync.

Do you have another router that you can use or borrow just for testing purposes?
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

MollyCoddle

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2009, 11:12:20 AM »

@kitz, thanks for your feedback.

>See how not only the sync speed changed - but also the HECs reset to zero - so obviously a reconnection has taken place.

A.----Yes, but I had started to doubt myself over all of this, all of your your observations agree with my thoughts.

>....but does this by any chance happen at 18:00 each day?

A.----There doesn't seem to be a reliable trend. The recent re-syncs not 'recognised' by the Netgear log/BT/Idnet are at 19Feb@20:20, 20Feb@00:17, 21Feb@2326, 24Feb@18:25 & 25Feb@18:00.
On each of these occasions, the errors in the previous 15 mins as reported by the Netgear are approx 3,000CRC & 1,400HEC.

>Do you have another router that you can use or borrow just for testing purposes?

A.-----Yes, as you may remember, I have a USR9105.
My plan had been to wait until Saturday, reset (using the reset button) and use the recovery utility to re9install the 1.02.16 official software. Then if there was no change, to re-use the USR.

>Im just thinking of the infamous 24hr boots at midnight by many a netgear router.

A.-----I have never heard of this issue, I am now inclined to take your suggestion and go straight to the USR on Saturday.

Overall, my strategy is to pursue this until the logs from my end and Idnet supports our observations.

Thanks again,

MC
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33879
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2009, 11:58:02 AM »

>> have never heard of this issue,

It was only on the off chance.  What it is was that certain firmware versions would loose sync every 24hours at dead on midnight. 
The only reason I mentioned it was just for elimination..  it could be that your time wasn't set to GMT and therefore doing it at 6pm or something silly.
Since it doesnt happen every day - then we can safely rule that one out anyhow.

>> I have a USR9105.

Sorry - I see many different threads/posts per day  and my memory is like a sieve at the best of times... therefore I often need reminding.   :blush:
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

MollyCoddle

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2009, 12:22:37 PM »

@kitz

>it could be that your time wasn't set to GMT.

A.-----I like to generate ideas laterally myself. However it is interesting that before I posted this thread, I considered that my PC system clock has to be set to US Eastern Time for the work I do, the Netgear sets itself to GMT. Yet the 5 hour difference doesnt fit in anywhere.

>Sorry - I see many different threads/posts per day

A.-----No need, "‘It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them." P. G. Wodehouse (1881-1975).

>I couldnt tell from your IP.

A.----- ;)

MC
Logged

MollyCoddle

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2009, 02:25:00 PM »

I captured a re-sync on my Netgear log on Friday night and the stats show a spike in CRC
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 52923
CRC = 5319
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 360
# /usr/sbin/adslctl info --stats
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 1
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 448 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2400 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:                   G.DMT
Channel:                Interleave
Trellis:                OFF
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):       14.7            19.0
Attn(dB):       45.0            29.0
Pwr(dBm):       18.6            11.9
Max(Kbps):      2688            972
Rate (Kbps):    2400            448
                        G.dmt framing
K:              76(0)           15
R:              14              16
S:              2               8
D:              8               2
                        ADSL2 framing
MSGc:           1               1
B:              113             15
M:              2               8
T:              1               1
R:              16              16
S:              2.1403          9.0000
L:              912             128
D:              8               2
                        Counters
SF:             98883           98882
SFErr:          6               0
RS:             3362042         839978
RSCorr:         11942           0
RSUnCorr:       21              0

HEC:            5               0
OCD:            1               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    9515307         0
Data Cells:     509             0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             4529            0
SES:            205             0
UAS:            161             0
AS:             1681

INP:            0.56            1.00
PER:            1.87            1.96
delay:          4.28            4.50
OR:             29.90           28.44

Bitswap:        0               0

Total time = 1 days 8 hours 29 min 19 sec
SF  = 11946492
CRC = 16238
LOS = 4
LOF = 36
ES  = 4529
Latest 1 day time = 8 hours 29 min 19 sec
SF  = 1793540
CRC = 6111
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES  = 529
Latest 15 minutes time = 14 min 19 sec
SF  = 50504
CRC = 4
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 2
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 48969
CRC = 567
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES  = 4
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF  = 5077834
CRC = 4926
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES  = 3708
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 52923
CRC = 5319
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 360
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 52923
CRC = 142
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 100
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 52923
CRC = 3
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 3
Showtime Drop Reason:   1
Last Retrain Reason:    1

Changing the router on Saturday, back to USR and on Monday night, another log caught re-sync with data. At least the router is logging these now. After this re-sync, Interleave Depth was set to 4.

Throughout all this re-sync period, the Interleave Depth has been set to 8, when stability was good and connection rates was about 4800, Interleave Depth was set to 16.

The response from my ISP is that the BT helpdesk say that Interleave can only be set to on or off!!!!!, and that BT have set my connection rate to 2000 to increase stabilty!!!!!!!

The latest after BT testing/configuring shows Interleave off
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime  Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 288 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2272 Kbps
Mode:                   G.DMT
Channel:                Fast
Trellis:                ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):       20.3            26.0
Attn(dB):       44.5            27.0
Pwr(dBm):       11.9            19.6
Max(Kbps):      6688            1072
Rate (Kbps):     2272           288
K:              72(0)           10
R:              0               0
S:              1               1
D:              1               1
SF:             28817           28815
SFErr:          3               0
RS:             0               0
RSCorr:         0               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0
HEC:            1               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0

I feel a conspiracy theory coming on
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 02:28:16 PM by MollyCoddle »
Logged

MollyCoddle

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: RouterStats and DMT not believed!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2009, 12:03:41 PM »

Please let me know what you see :-

Edited for statement:- as I can not get DMT's freq. response for USR, I have used Routerstats capture

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 12:06:13 PM by MollyCoddle »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3
 

anything