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Author Topic: Carol Thatcher  (Read 13261 times)

mr_chris

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2009, 10:22:33 AM »

Just to put this back in proportion, the conversation was in private, not broadcast on TV. She didn't go up to him and call him a golliwog, she referred to Tsonga looking like a golliwog, in a conversation in the green room.

Plenty of presenters direct some very offensive insults at celebrities and non-celebrities alike every single day, broadcast to millions of people on TV and national radio, and yet this is acceptable, even encouraged. Why? What makes it less offensive?

I had a hand-me-down golliwog toy when I was a youngster. I never even associated it with a black person until somebody pointed it out to me when the whole racist thing started to kick off over it. I still couldn't see the connection really, it just looked like any other character toy to me. It had a black face because... well I never even questioned why it had a black face!!

I'm sure when most people think of the term, they think of an image of the rag doll. Just like when you say 'teddy bear', you don't think of an ugly great grizzly bear who wants you for breakfast, you think of your favourite fluffy toy you possibly cuddled up to in bed when you were young.

The point is, this is obviously (IMHO) simply an excuse they were looking for to get rid of Carol Thatcher from the show more than anything, as I am confident that much worse is, has been, and will be said in future in television studio green rooms.
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Chris

chrissie

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2009, 11:11:22 AM »

You dont think it was racist,then why did he mention the word scottish.Is scotland not a race of people,or just a little offshoot of england.I suggest you go up to any coloured person and call them a "golliwog" and see if they take offence.You can then say you didnt mean any malice and see where that gets you.
You should also bear in mind that miss thatchers comment could have 50% of the english population up in arms ;D ;D ;D

I wouldn't call anyone a golliwog and neither did she (read Mr Chris' post above)....it would be like saying "he reminds me of a teddy bear...." or "she reminds me of a barbie doll" etc etc etc!   It wasn't said as a racist remark unlike if I was to go up to a black person and CALL them a golliwog - get things into perspective please!   As for saying someone is scottish or english or welsh or australian.....I don't think it's racist no.....I am an english gittess ...... I don't think I'm being racist.... just saying where I'm from and that I can be a "gittess" ok?  Get things into perspective and give a little, forgive a little and perhaps people like you won't take offence so readily!

@ Mr Chris - all my sentiments exactly, well said and what a pity there aren't more level headed people around not ready to JUMP at something being said that isn't meant to hurt or be unpolitically correct!!  This bluddy country is beyond help now, made that way by the do gooders and those who seek to give our country over to foreigners.  Sorry but it's the way I feel and the sooner we revert back to old values and treat ALL people with respect the better, and to be able to laugh at ourselves in whatever form that takes will make this country a happier place to live.
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robinsteele

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2009, 01:03:40 PM »

Hello chrissie,let me put MY slant on things.Your precious country has about 50% black/asian/immigrants OK.They are welcome into England as far as im concerned and dont blame them,blame YOUR government currently and the British Imperial brigade for that.The alf garnett and bernard manning days are gone now so get used to it please.
Could she have said "that coloured" tennis player instead,would Clarkson describe David Cameron as "that english idiot".I leave it up to you since you appear to know what they mean
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mr_chris

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2009, 03:07:05 PM »

Your precious country has about 50% black/asian/immigrants OK.They are welcome into England as far as im concerned

Me too, as I'm sure chrissie is also.
 
As far as I can see, nobody's complaining that there are people of different ethnic origins living here. The way I interpreted chrissie's comment about giving the country over to foreigners, was that ethnic minorities can often have MORE rights than others, which is wrong.
 
You also seem to have conveniently missed where she said "the sooner we revert back to old values and treat ALL people with respect the better". Notice there was no mention of colour, race, gender, or anything else here - simply 'all people'. It appears that you are perhaps putting your own slant on what's been written, rather than simply reading the words verbatim.
 
I know it's a contentious topic, but let's try not to introduce even more contentious secondary issues if we can help it.
 
The main issue as far as I can see is that Thatcher said what she did in private, and Jo Brand apparently found it offensive (oh the irony!!!!). Now why she, or whoever else that was listening, decided to take it upon themselves to report Carol Thatcher for saying this, I don't know. The only thing I can think is that somebody wanted to get her in trouble, and they have obviously succeeded in their goal.
 
My personal point of view is why does referring to someone as a 'golliwog' cause someone to lose their job, when if he had been skinny and she had referred to him as a 'beanstalk', I'm absolutely sure nothing at all would have been said (certainly we wouldn't know about it). It appears that she was not using the term in a derogatory manner. I would even go as far as to say that the original meaning of golliwog has been all but forgotten, except by those who like to pick up on anything that they could, in another context, make into a "racist comment".
 
I know that the term golliwog is considered offensive to black people because of the origins of the toy doll, but I expect there are plenty of other words in the english language that have very dubious origins, and are now considered socially acceptable, or at least certainly wouldn't cause you to lose your job if you said it to a couple of work colleagues.
 
I'm not saying it was smart or right to say what she did, just that we simply shouldn't have ever heard anything about it. It wasn't apparently said in a derogatory manner, it wasn't directed to his face, and it wasn't broadcast. Sole grounds for dismissal? Surely not.
 
People use descriptive terms to describe other people all the time, doesn't mean they're racist. I'm not racist, I treat everyone the same and judge on character, not appearance. I have friends who are white, black, asian, mixed-ethniticity, straight, gay etc. If I don't like somebody, it's because they have done or said something to offend me, and I think more people should be like that instead of trying to cause problems where there aren't any by acting under the guise of being dutybound to protect a certain group of people.
 
As for Clarkson on Gordon Brown... the guy happens to be Scottish. So whilst what he said was unprofessional and downright rude, given that he KNEW he was speaking in public, can you honestly tell me that the Scots never use the word "English" as a descriptive term when slagging somebody off who is English?
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Chris

kitz

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2009, 03:47:18 PM »

I agree TBH I think this has all been blown totally out of proportion.

But then again as a child I had a gollywog, I had a white rag doll..  I had a black babydoll and a white babydoll.   I never ever saw anything different about colour of skin, to me it was like just like different colour of hair.

I grew up in a country were "Abo"* kids went to my school.   One of the most racist remarks Ive ever heard has to have come from a friend I used to know who was black (afro Caribbean) directed at Asians. I find it ironic that Jo Brand find its offensive - personally I find many of the comments she makes hardly whiter than white. :/

...  and a reminder to all - feel free to discuss the incident or thoughts - but please dont let this get personal.  I dont want to have to lock the thread.


---------------------------------

*Abo in the shortened sense for Aborigine in the same affectionate way I'd use Oz.
Nothing more than that. Neither me or my friends black or white ever saw anything wrong with it - in fact they were proud of their heritage.
Gawd isnt it awful that we so have to watch every single word we use these days.

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mr_chris

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2009, 04:05:23 PM »

personally I find many of the comments she makes hardly whiter than white. :/

I see what you did there ;D
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Chris

robinsteele

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2009, 04:21:11 PM »

Ill give 2 occurences which may explain what i meant earlier,maybe im an idiot or others are naive

1.Four blokes get out of a taxi here,one says come on lads lets go into to this strip club.One of the others says hang on,im away to get a packet of ciggies from the pa*i shop.He was promptly arrested,convicted in court and lost his job as a bank clerk

2.A taxi driver here was at a family function and there was an argument and he called one of his relatives an engl*sh b*stard.He promptly lost his taxi drivers licence for i think 3 months.

I am of the opinion that if you make a derogatory comment about someone an preempt that with their nationality,then that is a racist comment.The same applies with clour and creed.
Id better go as im away round for a packet of ciggies :lol:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 04:23:30 PM by robinsteele »
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roseway

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2009, 04:26:05 PM »

I think enough has been said on the subject. People have different views, and I don't believe that anyone here is a racist. Let's just agree to disagree without fighting over it.
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  Eric

oldfogy

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2009, 04:56:10 PM »

I think enough has been said on the subject. People have different views, and I don't believe that anyone here is a racist. Let's just agree to disagree without fighting over it.

I'll second that.
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jeffbb

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2009, 06:14:35 PM »

Hi

Well its all so much hot air / I am an Englismen living in Wales for the past many years ,on odd ocasions I have bee referred to as an English  *****. during some argument. A few years back after retiring form work I was contracting down in Gloucester with BE . When I was working there I suddenly became a welsh grey haired **** (hair has turned grey ). No doubt If I went to Australia I would be a "POM". :lol:

Remember this  motto" honi soit qui mal y pense" or   "EVIL TO HE WHO EVIL THINKS"


By the way Jo Brand  was one of 3 people who on QI thought nothing of insulting Margaret Thatcher
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/4560371/BBC-faces-fresh-criticism-over-offensive-remarks-about-Baroness-Thatcher.html
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UncleUB

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2009, 06:48:55 PM »

.The alf garnett and bernard manning days are gone now so get used to it please



I personally don't think you should be telling people what they should get used  to,at least not on here any how.
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Floydoid

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2009, 07:08:58 PM »

One of the best statements on this racism issue was said to me by a West Indian friend.  "You may call me black.  You may call me a b*stard.  But don't call me a black b*stard."
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jeffbb

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2009, 07:30:15 PM »

very wise
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robinsteele

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2009, 10:26:21 PM »

.The alf garnett and bernard manning days are gone now so get used to it please



I personally don't think you should be telling people what they should get used  to,at least not on here any how.

I did ask politely though  LOL
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Ezzer

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Re: Carol Thatcher
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2009, 12:29:42 AM »

The main thing for me about the subjects of racism or prejudice is that I have a small selection of people who I have lost. this is something that pains me intensely. So by what logic should I push away any other human for no reason than a obscure fear of a preconcieved abjecture. by that I would loose imensely so much more.

Please feel free to quote me on that
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