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[broadstairs]

I have just come across a problem which is likely to hit people with older IDTVs and set top boxes. There has been a change in the standards used to broadcast the DVB signals in the UK which has moved the goal posts and many older set top boxes and IDTVs may stop picking up channels correctly or even at all when you re-tune. We have two Oggle set top boxes bought from ASDA about a year ago and it is these which now place BBC1 etc on channels in the 800 range rather than picking up the correct channel numbers.

Apparently the problem can exists with any equipment puchased without the Digital Tick logo which is relatively recent and it seems that there is no real solution for this problem. I have Googled this and it has been known about for many months now but only comes to light if you re-tune your IDTV or set top box.

So be warned and check your equipment before re-tuning to make sure you are not affected. If your set is within warranty then you should be OK and be able to get it fixed, but many which are affected will not be as they will be more than 12 months old.

[Yorkie]

Funnily enough I re-tuned my yesterday as there are some new channels Quest, not up and running yet but coming soon and YouGov are the ones that spring to mind, it was okay though, but I only bought my last summer, all the same it must be damn annoying if your boxes are just out of warranty.

[UncleUB]

Ours is a Goodmans one which is 4 year old and seems fine (at present)

[tonyappuk]

As a retired broadcast transmitter engineer I thought at last I may be able to help others on the Forum which has been so much help to me. Unfortunately the situation is not straightforward and I am contacting old colleagues and acquaintances to get the latest info. What I would endorse in BROADSTAIR's post is the caution about not rescanning unless it's really necessary. It's not clear to me if that could completely kill a digibox or iDTV but it might I suppose. If it merely found BBC1 on 807 say it might be possible tp relabel it as 1 in your "Favourites" which most boxes have. The final resort is to buy a digibox from Tesco or wherever for £20 or and plug that in. Even Integrated DTV's have SCART sockets which will accept the digibox output so all is not lost. When my more expert friends have responded to me I will post again with a more definitive answer.
Tony

[oldfogy]

Is this another "NEW" problem or just the one from last years being discussed?

As for the set top box's that are even still in guarantee, apparently the suppliers were saying it's not their problem and therefore could/would not do anything about it, as there is nothing wrong with the box as such, the problem is with the signal transmitters, (so tough).

If this is last years problem then there is a list of box's that are affected available on the web.

[broadstairs]

Is this another "NEW" problem or just the one from last years being discussed?

As for the set top box's that are even still in guarantee, apparently the suppliers were saying it's not their problem and therefore could/would not do anything about it, as there is nothing wrong with the box as such, the problem is with the signal transmitters, (so tough).

If this is last years problem then there is a list of box's that are affected available on the web.

Well its certainly been known about for a year or more but it has all depended on folk finding out as transmitters are upgraded/changed as has happened to our transmitter relatively recently.

Its all very well for the manufacturers to say 'tough' but I bet there are probably many people with now useless set top boxes or TVs and I think it is very wrong for this to have been apparently covered up in this way. We have all been told for ages now 'when you but a new TV buy a digitally capable one' so someone in my view in the Government should be held responsible for this, although I am realistic that there is more chance of a pig sprouting wings and flying than anyone doing anything about this. So far I've not come across a definitive list of affected boxes or TVs, the information I've found is very fragmented and needless to say nothing at all on the DigitalUK website, what was there has been removed!

[broadstairs]

I have been doing some more reading on this problem and it appears that it may be associated with a recent change to something called the NIT (approriate acronym I think  ) the Network Information Table and is associated with the EPG (Electronic Program Guide) I believe. This change I thinkl was implemented country wide sometime in the latter half of 2008.
 

[robinsteele]

An interesting thread.Im hoping my sony pvr doesnt apply to this.Its not too bad if its boxes like my 6 year old ex-itv digital one, as a £16 onn box from asda performs better.
You would think a software update would sort it out,but there again look at windows

[oldfogy]

I don't know if this is of any help, but here it is:
You can download the pdf which shows the "so-called" complete list.
I know for a fact that this is not a complete list as Daewoo is not listed, yet on the list I saw originally some Daewoo models were also reported as being effected.

http://www.freeview.co.uk/freeview/Resolutions/Will-my-digital-equipment-continue-to-work-at-switchover

These makes & Models are not upgradeable.

ONdigital
Alba / Bush ONdigital sets STB ported inside IDTVs 1998 *
Nokia Mediamaster 9850T Set Top Box 1998-2002 *
Pace DTR730  Set Top Box *
DTR735 Set Top Box *
Philips DTX 6370 Set Top Box Nov98-Aug01 *
DTX 6371 Set Top Box " *
DTX 6372 Set Top Box " *
Pioneer DBRT200 Set Top Box *
DBRT210 Set Top Box *
Sony VTX-D500 Set Top Box *
Toshiba  DTB2000 Set Top Box *

Freeview
Pace DTVA-T (Wedge Adaptor) Set Top Box 2001 *
Samsung SIRU200i (Without M suffix) Set Top Box 2003 *

Note: There may be other products that are affected. If your box or IDTV has stopped working and is
not listed contact your retailer or the manufacturer for confirmation that it is a 2K COFDM only model.
2K only IDTVs can be upgraded with a modern digital set top box or digital recorder. Look for the
‘digital tick’ when buying any new TV equipment. Any 2K only sets being used to just monitor
pictures/sound from games machines or DVD players will continue to work as before.

[UncleUB]

I always switch ours off at the mains at night.(as we are told to do by the energy saving lobby).When I turn it on in the mornings I get an screen message to leave it on stand by 24/7 or it won't update the EPG.I just press the menu button to by pass this and then select whatever I want to watch.I periodically do a scan to update the channels without any problems.

[broadstairs]

There are two problems with Digital TV which can happen. There is a parameter which is called transmission mode and this is set to either 2k or 8k and the list OF has shown is the list of boxes which cannot be upgraded to cope with this change. AFAIK the only area where this has been a problem is the Borders and the list specifically applies to this area only. From what I have read the 2k 8k thing has not been approved for general use yet, OFCOM are supposed to be making a decision on this for the rest of the country later this year.

The problem of the changing NIT is likely to be much more widespread and as I have found with my Oglle box from ASDA it does not cope with an extended NIT and places a whole bunch of channels in the wrong sequence. This problem is likely to be much more widespread. Some boxes you can re-order the display sequence so that they appear in the correct order, others you cannot. Some boxes and possible TVs simply wont work correctly, although right now I have no definite information on which if any boxes will fail to find the channels.

This is just another case of the powers that be not thinking things through and running rough shod of the people like us at the sharp end. It will be especially confusing for folks who are not technically minded, and possible a case for exploitation by unscrupulous TV repair men/shops.

[HPsauce]

My boxes/TV's are getting very confused now.
As the number of channels increases on each transmitter we're getting overlaps; I can now pick up well over 100 channels in total from 2 different main transmitters (Crystal Palace and Hannington).
And each box has its own way of deciding how to number them.

There seems to be no facility to "preselect" your primary transmitter. 

[tonyappuk]

The 2K/8K change which might happen is another problem really which ma/will raise its head in the future. The main hiccup at present is the implimentation of the use of NIT to allow different programmes to be broadcast in different areas of the country. I don't blaim the "powers that be" as Broadstairs does since the full digital Spec has always allowed for the use of area NITs. The problem rests with the receiver manufacturers who didn't fully comply with the spec. It is interesting that the original OnDigital boxes some of which are still in service all cope with the recent NIT changes because they adhered to the full spec.
Tony

[robinsteele]

I think my old nokia itv digi box displays bb1 at channel 801

[tonyappuk]

I had gathered from friends with old OnDigi boxes and from my own experience that they all complied fully with the spec. but from robinsteele's post it seems I was wrong. I have heard that misreporting of channel numbers can arise if the signal strength in your area changes drastically but that's me clutching at straws!
Tony