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Author Topic: Severe REIN interference??  (Read 19006 times)

indigobanana

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2009, 02:11:02 PM »

Haha! Yeah that might be something to do with it.

Wow Ezzer you should've left them thinking your mind powers can fix routers, that would've been hilarious!

Good SNR bit/tone graph from this afternoon:


One thing though, why is bit 64 dead? ...
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kitz

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2009, 02:29:00 PM »

The difference in attenuation across different kit is well known.  Some routers will measure it at 300 kHz, some will average it accross the bins loaded, whilst some may average it across the available frequency range.

The Voyager 2100 measures the looploss at 300kHz.
Those routers which average the results will always give a slightly higher attenuation than those that measure at the fixed 300kHz.

>> An example: adobe.com

I bet I know what that is - Ive fallen foul of it myself on a 2100. 
The voyager 2100 router has 2x MTU settings, one on the WAN side and another on the LAN.  One of them (cant remember which one it was now) seems a bit quirky and doesnt quite seem to work quite right and for some reason has to be set at MTU 1500 or sites such as adobe fail to load.
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indigobanana

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2009, 04:40:01 PM »

Ahh, that's really interesting.... it sounds like the Voyager's report was more accurate then? Ahh i was wondering if that was to do with MTU issues, I tried changing it a while back but never managed to get it working.

Hmm I dont know if anyone else has noticed this but recently after the major ipstream problems and cable damage etc. i dont seem able to use any bt test logins or bt speedtest logins. For example i was using your guide to using the BT Test Login - bt_test@startup_domain -  and I connect successfully:

ADSL Port 
MAC Address  00:1e:2a:14:42:a3
IP Address  172.20.66.170
Network Type  PPPoA
IP Subnet Mask  255.255.255.255
Gateway IP Address 217.32.78.141
Domain Name Server  62.6.38.125
                                   62.6.38.125

Problem is that the DNS servers do not seem to be able to resolve anything, including bt.net, and if I type the IP of the website in directly it just refuses to connect (times out). This is the same when i try the speedtest login (bt_test_user@tiscali.co.uk)....  :(
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kitz

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2009, 08:46:28 PM »

>> I dont know if anyone else has noticed this.....

I cant login to check I'm afraid since Im on an LLU'd line.
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indigobanana

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2009, 09:01:26 PM »

Im on an LLU'd line.

Sure wish i was  :( not so much chance when the exchange has 600 people...
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jeffbb

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2009, 11:06:33 PM »

Hi

quote : One thing though, why is bit 64 dead? ...    it is not used the only thing is that on my graphs it still plots the SNR/tone

I have just completed bt speedtest no problem  at  http://www.speedtester.bt.com/

Regards jeff

edit   apart from having DL of <450kbps
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indigobanana

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2009, 11:14:50 PM »

Hi Jeff, thanks for the info! I think i read somewhere just before that its called the pilot tone? Not sure what it is though...

what DNS servers / IP gateway etc were you assigned? Maybe it was different? :S i dont understand because it used to work but no more  :(
i think my download is about that speed too at the moment :/   IPStream  :-X
 
thanks, Jamie
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waltergmw

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2009, 11:44:08 PM »

Hi indigobanana,

I don't think you're really going to want to know about pilot tones but here's some enthralling un-Kitzish descriptions.
If you do, you're a better man than I Gunga Din !

A method is described for reducing computational requirements during idle transmission in remote access systems incorporating digital subscriber line (DSL) modems, including asymmetrical DSL (ADSL) systems. Processing power is saved during idle transmission by generating an idle signal using low-complexity techniques. The generated idle signal is made spectrally compatible with xDSL systems, and a non-disruptive signaling scheme is used to indicate to the far-end receiver the transition between idle to active or active to idle status. A technique is presented that modulates the phase of the pilot tone to signal status transitions to the remote receiver. The computational complexity at the receiver is reduced because fill demodulation and decoding is not required to determine that an idle signal is being transmitted.

Which I found at:-http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6201830.html

There's also a lot more at:-
http://www.commsdesign.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=16502772

But Kiz's explanation is far more digestable !

Kind regards,
Walter


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indigobanana

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2009, 03:24:54 PM »

wow! I think I understand.... almost like a constant ADSL frequency transmittion even though no actual data may be travelling to/from the exchange? :)

If you're interested i managed to get the pictures, you can see the railway substation equipment behind the telegraph pole.


View of telegraph pole from window

Closer shot of telegraph pole, note railway behind

Substation and other buildings behind fence

Sneaky shot of substation

Interference heaven.
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kitz

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2009, 11:08:06 AM »

>> almost like a constant ADSL frequency transmittion even though no actual data may be travelling to/from the exchange?

yep - as a kind of check that the line is still up and functioning ok.

BTW nice link walter - it was interesting to read another intepretation of the real technical specs.

Also interesting to note that the (USA) explanation seems to call 'Channel Analysis' as Characterization...  since that report also had a lot of imput from someone who works at Thomson that ties in rather nicely with the question you were asking another day in a separate thread about the 3rd graph on DMTtool.  I could write some more, but I dont want to detract too much from the OPs thread. - Plus Im not at home and dont want to be too rude to rude to my host and take over their PC whilst I blurb.


Jamie - good pics...  just another thought and something else to put in the mix...  the train lines.  In the past I recall reading something somewhere when a high speed train was causing problems too, unfortunately I cant remember the when where or whats.

Im wondering if the spikes could coincide with a train passing by?
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indigobanana

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2009, 04:36:31 PM »

>> almost like a constant ADSL frequency transmittion even though no actual data may be travelling to/from the exchange?

yep - as a kind of check that the line is still up and functioning ok.

Ahh excellent :) I wasnt completely sure, but you learn something every day!


Jamie - good pics...  just another thought and something else to put in the mix...  the train lines.  In the past I recall reading something somewhere when a high speed train was causing problems too, unfortunately I cant remember the when where or whats.

Im wondering if the spikes could coincide with a train passing by?

Yup this seems to be the case most of the time, only with some trains though, sometimes they have no effect. Its definately electromagnetic interference, which can be heard on the AM radio as well, I guess produced by the substation / other electronics on the railway working when they're needed (?). Not much that can be done about it though. However things have dramatically improved since removing the ring wire, which amplified the noise i presume, and after using the netgear dg834g it is maintaining a stable connection at just over 5000kb/s.

As another interesting point, I've been round to my neighbours whos on the next telegraph pole along (sharing with the power pole eww) and they are syncing at 995 Kbps or something crazy, their attenuation is changing between 50-60db and theyre getting almost double speeds when the phone rings. Sounds like bad wiring, infact i think they're not even using a microfilter. (or its in the wrong place? ???)Can you believe it? I might go round soon and investigate!
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kitz

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2009, 06:27:07 PM »

>> However things have dramatically improved since removing the ring wire, which amplified the noise i presume

Yes it can/will do.

>> changing between 50-60db

That should not happen.   Change in attenuation normally indicates an actual line fault.

>> theyre getting almost double speeds when the phone rings

See ~ adsl only works when the phone is being used.  Its the same theory, just to a lesser degree.

The 2 symptoms together look like the line may have a High Open/ High Resistance  fault caused by a rusty joint or water on the line.





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indigobanana

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2009, 02:30:51 PM »

sadly they're not interested in having it fixed. For some reason a 992 Kbps connection (which would make a 750 profile I guess) is enough for them ??? I dont understand some people.

Also they have this strange extension, like a wind up power cord but with telephone wire. Im sure that can't help!
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kitz

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2009, 05:56:20 PM »

>> sadly they're not interested in having it fixed.

I know what you mean, my neighbours are seemingly happy that they get 400kbps from a TT connection 'cause it works'. 
That is on a line that is about <200m from the exchange and could get up to 24Mb.  :-X
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indigobanana

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Re: Severe REIN interference??
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2009, 06:36:19 PM »

 ??? That's unbelievable! I guess it's their choice. Are they ADSL2+ ?
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