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Author Topic: SNRM and a Netgear router  (Read 4998 times)

nicpy

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SNRM and a Netgear router
« on: January 05, 2009, 08:07:00 AM »

I have been trying to resolve a slow speeds at peak times issue with Tiscali for some time now (who hasn`t!) it is as yet unresolved. Along the way I`ve tried all that I can think of, including wiring, different modems, routers, etc ,etc. I have a Netgear 834GT router which reports  download attenuation as 4Db and currently SNRM as 16.8 and have tried the DGteam firmware, Ubergt firmware and DMT and using the `busybox` in a telnet session, in an attempt to force down the SNRM, and it won`t move! Or at least it doesn`t report it it on either routerstats or the router status page. Instead of moving down it will go back up to 17.8Db on a re-sync. As I understand it the 834GT has a Broadcom chipset, so I should be able to experiment with SNRM? Has anyone any thoughts on why the SNRM seems immovable 
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HPsauce

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2009, 08:44:55 AM »

You need to show the full router stats with sync speeds etc. before anyone can say.
SNRM is what it is at the end of the day, what you play with is the "target", but if reality is very different so be it.

(I left Tiscali due to having a full 8meg link that would only do dial-up speeds at any reasonable hour and even emails couldn't be delivered due to server timeouts)
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nicpy

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2009, 08:50:57 AM »

System Up Time 20:13:33
Port   Status   TxPkts   RxPkts   Collisions   Tx B/s   Rx B/s   Up Time
WAN   PPPoA   50785   69594   0   127   1082   19:46:04
LAN   10M/100M   180633   122396   0   1870   183   20:13:29
WLAN   11M/54M   38907   278298   0   568   117   20:13:24


ADSL Link   Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed   7616 kbps   448 kbps
Line Attenuation   4.0 db   4.0 db
Noise Margin   17.6 db   22.0 db



Is there any further info required?

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HPsauce

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2009, 09:04:50 AM »

That's pretty much running at full speed on a very short line.
How far away is the exchange from you, not much more than 200 metres I reckon?

Is it a Tiscali LLU connection or normal BT phone line?
If the latter, run a BT Speed Test and report back.

But it really just looks like throttling inside Tiscali's network. So start looking elsewhere....  ;)
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nicpy

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2009, 10:21:06 AM »

If I were to run a speed test now it would in all probability be around 6mb, but if it were around 8 o`clock in the evening then it would more likely be at less than 1mb....................not good for a 8mb line!
Yes we have a very short line to the exchange.........just 180 metres, should be a pucca line! It is  BT .
I have come to the conclusion that it is nothing more than Tiscali trying to put a quart in a pint pot! Just simple old congestion.
But interestingly for the first twelve months on this connection I always synced at 8128, download atten a consistent 4Db, noise margin 6Db, speed tests in the high seven`s (off peak) were easily achievable, I was a happy bunny!
But I still don`t understand why I can`t shift the noise margin on the router...........I know from reading other threads on this forum that it does work for other people with the same router :-\


URL=http://www.speedtest.net][/URL]
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HPsauce

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2009, 10:31:12 AM »

Your sync speed is at the maximum, it can't go any faster except by turning off interleaving.
I don't know Tiscali's current policy on that; when I was with them it was possible to turn it off, maybe they always have it on now.

That's it, your SNRM is high (meaning very low noise) because you have a good short line. No tweaking possible or required.

As you say "quart in a pint pot"... ;)
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nicpy

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2009, 10:53:09 AM »

You may be interested to look at a thread I had going on the Tiscali support  forum, I`m sure it will bring back a few memories to you. This was in addition to protracted talks with the support team in India!

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=157570

But thank you very much for your fast response to my query`s, incidentally who did you move to and has it been a success?
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kitz

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2009, 12:03:22 PM »

The lines running at full pelt for an interleaved line.  Your line is very short and your stats indicate that you dont actually need interleaving switched on.
Your ISP should be able to turn it off which will give you about another 500kbps.


However, that wont really help much with the peak time speeds.  Tiscali atm seem to have serious problems on both their IPStream and Datastream networks which materialise as slow speeds due to contention.  It also seems to now be affecting their LLU in some parts of the UK too :/


[edit]
 just seen your later post which would perhaps indicate that tiscali have turned interleaving off since you can now sync at 8128 rather than 7616
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kitz

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2009, 12:20:07 PM »

>> incidentally who did you move to and has it been a success?

Butting in here since the Q was at HP, but after HP left tiscali, we've both followed similar ISP paths.
We are both currently with Be.. whether or not you can migrate to them will depend on if they are available at your exchange.  You can check which LLU options are available by using the adsl checker.
Prior to that we were both with Plusnet where I got the full downstream, since I dont use p2p most of the stuff I did came down at 7Mbps, although it does depend which package you choose for your usage.

I too am on a very short line and can see the exchange out of my window, but even my stats arent as good as yours :).
When I first went with Be, I was able to sync at the full 24Mb but later sacrificed some of the downstream to give to my upstream so Im now at 23.5Mb down and 2.6Mb up.


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HPsauce

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2009, 04:05:03 PM »

Deja vu in spades in that Tiscali forum!

My problems were towards the end of 2007 and into early 2008 and as Kitz said I left them for PlusNet. They were fine, but a few months after I started with PN, Be opened up at my exchange and happen to supply just what I need so I switched - now paying just a little more.

If Be degrade (it's on the cards I reckon given the number of seriously greedy customers they have) I'd probably go back to PN at a "lowly" 8meg as BT's ADSL2+ is years away for me. The only other alternatives are TalkTalk and Virgin cable and for rather complex reasons I will need to keep my phone with BT for the forseeable future.
(I've actually kept my account open as "dial-up" at PN, so I have email and access to the forums and they even pay me for my referrals, and if I go back I'll get the same id etc.)
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kitz

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2009, 04:38:10 PM »

Quote
If Be degrade (it's on the cards I reckon given the number of seriously greedy customers they have) I'd probably go back to PN

I know this is a bit off-topic... but that is something that is nagging at me too.

Over the years Ive seen a few ISPs have problems due to too many heavies,  - seen what happened with PN when they were the 1st ISP to do the residential 2Mb - get swamped, lite new centrals segments each and every month and reach the stage when they had to do something.
Seen the heavies call PN the worst ISP ever, move on to another ISP, wash rinse repeat.  TBH I thought Enta would be on the cards next, just took a bit longer than I originally anticipated.  Seeing the amount of Enta users now murmering off to Be/02.. and knowing how slow Be can be to react sometimes also concerns me as to who is next.
If it does happen I hope Be pull their finger out and clamp down on heavies rather than all and sundry.

>> I'd probably go back to PN at a "lowly" 8meg as BT's ADSL2+ is years away for me.

ditto - although I appreciate that PNs traffic shaping greatly deters the heavies or some other types of user - it did actually work for me and my own usage most of the time and I generally got my 7Mb for what I did.

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nicpy

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 05:42:31 PM »

As I had a little time on my hands I today to get to talk to Tiscali support regarding the interleaving  being switched off, I haven’t yet had a response back from my email so I thought `nothing ventured nothing gained`.
Got through to Broadband support first…………………….I had first to explain to the support person what interleaving was which didn`t exactly fill me with confidence, at the end of that conversation she said that you need to speak to BT as it`s their equipment, `we can do nothing from here`, but  we also pay Tiscali for our phone service, so transfer to telephone dept……………………………….you guessed it, telephone dept said it`s broadband dept, so back to them again, after some basic preambles, and a couple of quick questions (in danger of being impressed here!)  I get through to tier 2 support………………nice guy, but really doesn`t know about interleaving and says that it must be dealt with by BT………..and if I can get hold of BT I just know what they will say!   So the question is has anybody achieved getting interleaving switched off with Tiscali,……… and how?
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kitz

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2009, 12:57:02 AM »

Its your ISP that has to get interleaving switched off, its nothing to do with your phone line.
There is only your ISP that can request this and its not anything you can do by approaching BT yourself.

>> tier 2 support………………nice guy, but really doesn`t know about interleaving

I'm speechless :no:

TBH I think the following sums it up
Quote
We have been unable to find any issues with your line and believe your speeds to be within an acceptable level of service.

Your line is fine and shows no problems.
The problems would seem to occur on Tiscalis network, therefore it probably is within their acceptable limits.   
I heard from a very reliable source that tiscali were running their network at 150:1 way back in early 2006.. and since then they have a much higher contention ratio.. so go figure :(

Unfortunately Tiscali have always been a law unto themselves when it comes to congestion through contention right back to the early days of adsl in 2003.
There isnt much guidance as to what is considered acceptable for adsl because it is and always has been run as a contended service and a certain amount of bandwidth does need to be shared in order to make it affordable.  The only real guideline is that BTw state 400kbps.

There used to be a test you could do to check if the contention was on the BTw or the ISP network, but that has now been majorly removed.
There is a way that it can sometimes be accessed but you need to be on IPstream, and you also need to have a very slow throughput speed recorded on the BTw performance test to enable the trigger for ability to do one of the old style tests.
If youre on tiscali LLU or datastream then the test wont work.


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nicpy

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2009, 08:54:12 AM »

Pleased to report that the guy`s at Tiscali broadband support forum managed to get interleaving switched off for me....................credit where it`s due!
Now back up to 8128 with corresponding lift in download speeds :)
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jeffbb

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Re: SNRM and a Netgear router
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2009, 10:58:21 AM »

Miracles DO happen  ;D
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