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[MollyCoddle]

I have a real problem with my ISP. Their lack of knowledge or possibly clever tactics has led me to try to explain to them, what I need from them. They use BTw ADSLmax

I believe my bRAS profile is not adapting and I need BTw to restart my MSR!!!

My Router tells me:-

USRobotics Sureconnect
Mode:     G.DMT
Type:    Interleave
Line Coding:    Trellis Off
Status:    No Defect
 
Total ES:    62
Total SES:    0
Total UAS:    19
 
                      Downstream    Upstream
SNR Margin (dB):    8.4     24.0
Attenuation (dB):    44.5     27.0
Output Power (dBm):    11.9     19.7
Attainable Rate (Kbps):    4672     1120
Rate (Kbps):                4192     448
K (number of bytes in DMT frame):    132     15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word):    12     16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame):    1     8
D (interleaver depth):    16     2
 
Super Frames:    2116040     2116038
Super Frame Errors:    88     8
RS Words:    143890784     17986323
RS Correctable Errors:    906839     50
RS Uncorrectable Errors:    657     N/A
HEC Errors:    78     0
OCD Errors:    0     0
LCD Errors:    0     0
ES Errors    0     0

BT's speedtester tells me:-

Your DSL connection rate 4192 kbps(DOWN-STREAM) 488 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is 2000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was 1825 kbps

My router is directly connected to the MasterBox using a ADSLNation XTE

Help with my phrasing would be appreciated

Am I right in saying that my profile is stuck at 2000 kbps as my sync speed is 4192 kbps I need an IP profile reset from BTw?

Thanks in advance

[HPsauce]

No, you are wrong. For a start profile changes take 3 to 7 days to work through.
You have some other problems as indicated by the low Output Power and low speed for attenuation.
Local wiring problems would be typical; do you have any extensions wired to your faceplate?

[kitz]

That output power is very low..  it would be interesting to see some stats immediately after a resync.

[HPsauce]

Looking at it again I wonder if the router is reporting upstream/downstream power the wrong way round?

Still the wrong sync speed though...........

How long have you been syncing at that sort of speed?

[MollyCoddle]

Thanks for your help

I do not mind being wrong - I knew nothing about ADSL 3 days ago - steep learning curve hey!!!,
so I do not know how long I have sycronised at this speed. All I know is that for the last 5 weeks I have been experiencing 'observable' speed reduction on my applications and downloads, about a factor of 10 decrease in speed.
Thats why I invested in a XTE and moved all my connections to the NTE solely.

No extension wiring, all I have now is my USRobotics 'ADSL 4-Port Router Model 9105' and my BT DECT plugged into the ADSL Nation XTE I installed a few days ago.


I turned my router off for 30s and powered up at 9:00am UK time today, here are the results from the jury with DOWNSTREAM always first column :-

Mode:     G.DMT
Type:    Interleave
Line Coding:    Trellis Off
Status:    No Defect
 
Total ES:    0
Total SES:    0
Total UAS:    13
 
     Downstream    Upstream
SNR Margin (dB):    15.4     25.0
Attenuation (dB):    44.5     27.0
Output Power (dBm):    11.9     19.7
Attainable Rate (Kbps):    4704     1124
Rate (Kbps):    4224     448
K (number of bytes in DMT frame):    133     15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word):    12     16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame):    1     8
D (interleaver depth):    16     2
 
Super Frames:    9703     9701
Super Frame Errors:    0     0
RS Words:    659852     82458
RS Correctable Errors:    24     0
RS Uncorrectable Errors:    0     N/A
HEC Errors:    0     0
OCD Errors:    0     0
LCD Errors:    0     0
ES Errors    0     0

[HPsauce]

Hmmmm.
The Downstream SN margin being over 15 is a bad sign. It should be nearer 6 after a reboot.
But that might (does) explain the sync speed being low - it should be over 5.5meg.

If you've been like that for weeks then anything could have been going on.
Initially I'd suggest monitoring things over a few days. Leave the router on and restart it once a day (ideally in the morning) and note the following 2 or 3 times a day:
Downstream sync speed and SN Margin
IP Profile as reported by BT Speed Tester (this takes several days to change)

Also, double-filter your DECT phone - i.e. plug it into a filter then plug that filter into the filtered faceplate.

[kitz]

Thanks for the additional info, I think that helps clarify a few things about what may have been going on.
It seems like previously things were unstable, and Im hoping that by changing what you have done has now made the line more stable.

The figures after the resync would seem to confirm that it is the router firmware that is displaying the output power the wrong way round.  - Power output can sometimes drop after a while if your SNRMargin goes too high above your Target SNR, which is why I wanted to see a resync to see what your Target SNR is.

As HP has already said your Target SNR is 15dB, which is a sign that over the past few weeks youve been experiencing very unstable line conditions, disconnections and ties in with the speed reductions.

What we need now is a period of stability on that line and hopefully your Target SNR will reduce, which will in turn allow the router to sync at higher speeds.
I can now perhaps see why your ISP are a bit reluctant to get involved right now - if they requested BTw to reduce anything, based on the past instability the answer would probably be No.

As HP said, that line needs a little bit more monitoring to see if things have improved particularly in the evenings. 

I know where HP is coming from with the restart once a day, but on this occasion I'm going to suggest leaving it connected for a few days - or at least making sure that you make a note of what your sync speed and SNRM is before you do the resync as I want to make sure that the router is holding that 4224 sync.

Unfortunately it doesnt look like the router records your uptime... and if it is auto resyncing in the evenings... doing a resync in the mornings could upset that.

I dont know how adept you are with PCs and Im not sure if routerstats will work with your router, - with a bit of messing you may be able to get it working with the full version.
If you can it will take away a lot of the hard work of the monitoring your line.

Also keep checking the BTw IPprofile, Im hoping that it will soon change.



-------------------------
Note to self
USR 9105 uses BCM6345 chipset - may work with DMTv8

[HPsauce]

but on this occasion I'm going to suggest leaving it connected for a few days - or at least making sure that you make a note of what your sync speed and SNRM is before you do the resync as I want to make sure that the router is holding that 4224 sync.

Excellent point, I did think about that but didn't have time to write a lot and explain.  8)

[kitz]

nps HP,  your suggestions and points are normally very good ones and your input is much appreciated

[MollyCoddle]

@ kitz and HPsauce; thanks both for your input and help.

I will gather both router and BT test data 3 times a day for 5 days, I will also assess whether Routerstats will work with USR 9105 and give you feedback on that. I intuit that it will be better not to re-sync the router during this period.

Post back to you then, unless further posts on this thread need answering.

Good forum this.

MC

[b4dger]

Hi,
If your IP Profile stays at 2000 (assuming you don't have any low sync events) then it looks to me as if your profile is 'stuck'.  I've seen quite a few of these 'stuck' profiles - often they occur when moving to Max from a fixed product.

If it stays at 2000 then I would ask your ISP if you have a 'stuck radius profile' - my ISP (Freeola/Entanet) resolves these problems almost immediately so yours should be able to manage it.

Let us know how you get on...

[MollyCoddle]

@ b4dger, thanks but evryone I have spoken to at my ISP know less than I do about ADSL (see the bottom ISP rating on this site).

In addition to my recent post about Noise, here is what I have thus far. My throughput has improved quite a bit in this time, yet I expect 5.5Mb with my attenuation IF THE LINE WAS OK!!!.

The following is reported as it appears on my router, I mention this as there is some doubt about the orientation of some data.

I would be grateful for your knowledgeable feedback.

Sorry, the format changes after saving the post and after modifying
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Date of test                28-11-08                              28-11-08
time of test                 16:08                            20:11
Router uptime (approx)      7 hrs                             11 hrs

Total ES:               13                                  53
Total SES:               0                                   0
Total UAS:              13                                  13
                        Downstream    Upstream   Downstream    Upstream
SNR Margin (dB):          14.1                    25.0          8.6        25.0
Attenuation (dB):               44.5                     27.0         44.5            27.0 
Output Power (dBm):           11.9                19.7       11.9              19.7
Attainable Rate (Kbps):        4704              1124             4704             1124    
Rate (Kbps):                    4224             448            4224             448
   
Super Frames:                 1506929     1506927    2363990     2363988
Super Frame Errors:            12             0                    64        0
RS Words:             102471190     12808879    160751363     20093898
RS Correctable Errors:            3882                   0       1384494           0
RS Uncorrectable Errors:        97            N/A         478        N/A
HEC Errors:                      10           0                  50              0
OCD Errors:                      0                   0                  2              0
LCD Errors:                        0             0                  0                 0
ES Errors                     0               0            0                   0

BT Best Effort Test
    Your DSL conn rate:       4224 kbps     448 kbps           4224 kbps   448 kbps
    IP profile -              3500 kbps                         3500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput   -       3258 kbps                        3024 kbps

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Date of test                   29-11-08             29-11-08                          29-11-08
time of test                   10:56                   15:34                          19:07
Router uptime (approx)        1 day 1.5 hrs                 1 day 6 hrs                       1 day 10 hrs               
Total ES:                   128                159                                  202
Total SES:                   0                   0                                      0
Total UAS:                    13                 13                                     13
                 Downstream    Upstream   Downstream    Upstream   Downstream    Upstream
SNR Margin (dB):          12.9           25.0         11.8                25.0                 9.1          25.0
Attenuation (dB):                44.5           27.0        44.5               27.0               44.5        27.0     
Output Power (dBm):           11.9       19.7             11.9                  19.7             11.9            19.7
Attainable Rate (Kbps):        4704       1124           4704                1124          4704         1124    
Rate (Kbps):                   4224             448          4224                448                  4224         448
   
Super Frames:               5278105      5278103      6474744             6474742           7226709     7226707
Super Frame Errors:                152        0       187                    0                   241              0
RS Words:             358911148  44863875     440282635          55035307         491416258   61427009
RS Correctable Errors:             3828655           0          3833383                  0                    4446571         2
RS Uncorrectable Errors:           1342          N/A           1620                  N/A            2116      N/A
HEC Errors:                       121        0       149                  0                  196            0
OCD Errors:                        7          0           8                    0                     13      0
LCD Errors:                        0          0            0                    0                       0      0
ES Errors                     0            0             0              0                 0      0

BT Best Effort Test
    Your DSL conn rate:         4224 kbps       448 kbps   4224 kbps   448 kbps      4224 kbps   448 kbps
    IP profile -               3500 kbps                3500 kbps                 3500 kbps   
    Actual IP throughput   -         3213 kbps                3261 kbps                3166 kbps

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Date of test                  30-11-08                       30-11-08
time of test                   10:30                             20:00
Router uptime (approx)       2 days 1 hrs                           2 days  10hrs

Total ES:                668                                   53
Total SES:                1                                       0
Total UAS:                13                                    13
                       Downstream    Upstream   Downstream    Upstream
SNR Margin (dB):          12.6           25.0             8.4           25.0
Attenuation (dB):               44.5                  27.0            44.5               27.0 
Output Power (dBm):          11.9             19.7                 11.9          19.7
Attainable Rate (Kbps):        4704             1124                4704               1124    
Rate (Kbps):                    4224            448               4224                448
   
Super Frames:               10487930              10487928    12507343     12507341
Super Frame Errors:              1116                   0         1243               0
RS Words:             713179253        89147388      850499385     106312398
RS Correctable Errors:          37943939               2            42443350               2
RS Uncorrectable Errors:         4486                 N/A       5362                   N/A
HEC Errors:                       898                0       1003                 0
OCD Errors:                        19                0          25                 0
LCD Errors:                          0                 0             0                   0
ES Errors                       0                   0              0               0

BT Best Effort Test
    Your DSL conn rate:       4224 kbps         448 kbps                4224 kbps           448 kbps
    IP profile -             3500 kbps                             3500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput   -       3267 kbps                              3028 kbps

[HPsauce]

So your IP profile has gone up as it should, from 2000 to 3500. 

[MollyCoddle]

Yes, however the SNR (RX) gets GRADUALLY very bad, see http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=3689.0

From my attenuation of 44.5, I beleieve I can get 5.5Mb, should I be able to solve this noise riddle.

A few things are apparent to me, I would be grateful for feedback:-

1. From the RouterStats chart of RX SNR it looks like its the routers measure of the analogue noise on the RX channel, I wonder why the TX SNR is as flat as a pancake. If the router was measuring analogue, the extent of the RX SNR drop off would have some correlated change on the TX SNR, it does not, therefore I do not see it as RFI.

2. I can boost my O/P power ( to talk louder to my friend across the music in the echo-y room). I assume DMT can change this in my router to allow this power change to stick through power cycling. Or I can get a different router.

3. I have heard chat about a BT RFI choke that is more ADSL friendly, any ideas how I go about obtaining one to trial?, or does anyone know of a suitable electronic part I can try from RS or Maplins?. I intend no disrespect to anyone on this board or to anyones profession, however my experience has led me to realise its no good asking the standard BT/ISP service contacts for this.

4. 17070 has a "QUICK CLEANSE" option, is this a high current burst that blows HR/minor earth faults?.

I would be grateful for Ezzers input on the last two.

Thanks again,  MC

[HPsauce]

From my attenuation of 44.5, I beleieve I can get 5.5Mb, should I be able to solve this noise riddle.

Well thereabouts depending on local conditions, it's not exact.
And you're actually quite close at over 4meg sync rate.
Your target SNR is probably at 12dB at present causing something of a reduction.

Interference, if that's what it is, is presumably of a frequency such that it's hitting the (higher) downstream frequencies more than upstream. I think this is normal/common.

And no you can't boost output power. Even if you did it would only affect upstream which isn't the issue.