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Author Topic: New Router Question  (Read 32958 times)

Rahat

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2008, 07:19:04 PM »

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n217/jamieidavies/dsl2740b/snrpanel.png

on that DMT shot there are three adsl modes. Should i tick adsl2+ or not tick any?
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jid

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2008, 07:20:24 PM »

Don't tick any to start off.

The router should go to ADSL2+ straight away:D
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

Rahat

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2008, 08:42:00 PM »

Ok my router just resynced again but now at 6.6 compared to the 7.6meg earlier. So might the D link stop this from happening and be able to handle the noise at peak times? Its roughly every day at 8PM when the router resyncs.
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jid

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2008, 08:51:51 AM »

Ok my router just resynced again but now at 6.6 compared to the 7.6meg earlier. So might the D link stop this from happening and be able to handle the noise at peak times? Its roughly every day at 8PM when the router resyncs.

I really can't say until you have the Router connected to the line ;)

With regard to the resyncs you are having, it seems that your line cannot handle the 3dB target noise margin :(

Leave it on until you get the D Link and then monitor it for a while, see how it goes, but whether it will improve or not is anyone's guess.

The advantage with the D Link is it uses a Broadcom chipset like Be* / O2 so there could be a chance of some improvement there....
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

Rahat

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2008, 12:59:29 PM »

Hey, I want to know which firmware to use for the D link 2740B.

Should i use 2.61 or 2.73 (http://www.adsl2forum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=64435&postcount=5)
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Rahat

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2008, 01:04:55 PM »

Just downloaded 2.73 and have noticed that it isn't a .cfk file like 2.61 so do i install it the same way?
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Rahat

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2008, 01:05:32 PM »

It's a .bin file.
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kitz

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2008, 04:02:05 PM »

Normally I'd recommend going to the latest official firmware offered by the manufacturer.
 
Sometimes Betas are released and if your sure of the source then you can give them a try.
I can't recall now which version jid used on his and whether it was the beta ones or not.
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Rahat

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2008, 05:15:34 PM »

So if i get the D Link will i be able to adjust the SNR to something like 3.2 or 3.5?

Im not at home but i can say that my speedtouch (With SNR of 3db) router syncs at 7.7meg in the morning and drops out and reconnects at 6.6meg in the afternoon. So if i can adjust the SNR to 3.2 or 3.5 with the dlink how much might the router sync at? (You guys are really good with your estimations!). Plus, i have noticed that the speedtouch cannot handle 0.5 SNR and as soon as it hits that point the router disconnects. So im hoping an SNR of 3.5 will add stability but not lose me much speed (if any).
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broadstairs

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2008, 05:47:44 PM »

I believe you cannot set the SNR (actually SNR margin) all you can do is to ask the router to negotiate a lower SNR margin, all of this is a negotiation between router and the exchange equipment - you cannot force anything. Also from what I've read an SNR margin around 3 is unlikely to be stable, SNR margin will fluctuate and what you need to do is to get the router to negotiate a connection starts a an SNR margin  which is low enough to give the best speed and still stay up if/when it drops off during certain periods. I doubt there are many (indeed any) router which would maintain a stable connection at 0.5 SNR margin its simply asking too much of the poor electronics to cope with a signal where it cannot tell noise from data.

Now I have currently 2.61 firmware on my 2740B and it is stable at present, the SNR margin varies from about 9 or just over at best to around 6 with the odd spike lower to about 3 at worst and so far its been running like this for just over 2 days with no disconnects. On my line it gives me 5774kbps downstream.

As with all of this stuff YMMV.....
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jid

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2008, 05:49:46 PM »

So if i get the D Link will i be able to adjust the SNR to something like 3.2 or 3.5?

Im not at home but i can say that my speedtouch (With SNR of 3db) router syncs at 7.7meg in the morning and drops out and reconnects at 6.6meg in the afternoon. So if i can adjust the SNR to 3.2 or 3.5 with the dlink how much might the router sync at? (You guys are really good with your estimations!). Plus, i have noticed that the speedtouch cannot handle 0.5 SNR and as soon as it hits that point the router disconnects. So im hoping an SNR of 3.5 will add stability but not lose me much speed (if any).

With regard to what the router would sync with different SNR targets, you would have to wait for her reply on that one I am afraid :-[

As for firmware, the only thing that 2.73 does is put the latest firmware for the Broadcom wireless chipset and nothing more, the official 2.61 is the one that adds lots of enhancements for the Broadcom ADSL as well as adding a few more features and a lot of fixes:D

You should see similar speeds with the D Link as you do now on the Speedtouch with a 3db target, however as you seem to be having drop outs I would say bringing that down anymore using DMT would be too much for your line (and the noise on it) to cope with. Kitz, would you agree?
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

jid

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2008, 05:50:59 PM »

Normally I'd recommend going to the latest official firmware offered by the manufacturer.
 
Sometimes Betas are released and if your sure of the source then you can give them a try.
I can't recall now which version jid used on his and whether it was the beta ones or not.

I use 2.73 and have since I purchased, it sorted all of the PPP session issues I was having too, however Be/O2 don't use ppp so...

2.61 actually makes the DMZ work so that is vital for your sakes:D
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

jid

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2008, 05:54:15 PM »

I believe you cannot set the SNR (actually SNR margin) all you can do is to ask the router to negotiate a lower SNR margin, all of this is a negotiation between router and the exchange equipment - you cannot force anything. Also from what I've read an SNR margin around 3 is unlikely to be stable, SNR margin will fluctuate and what you need to do is to get the router to negotiate a connection starts a an SNR margin  which is low enough to give the best speed and still stay up if/when it drops off during certain periods. I doubt there are many (indeed any) router which would maintain a stable connection at 0.5 SNR margin its simply asking too much of the poor electronics to cope with a signal where it cannot tell noise from data.

Now I have currently 2.61 firmware on my 2740B and it is stable at present, the SNR margin varies from about 9 or just over at best to around 6 with the odd spike lower to about 3 at worst and so far its been running like this for just over 2 days with no disconnects. On my line it gives me 5774kbps downstream.

As with all of this stuff YMMV.....

With DMT, all you do is force the router to ignore the DSLAM/MSAN target snr and sync with its own (i think, correct if I am wrong)

I use DMT to bring my Target SNR to 6dB as they won't change it from 12dB.

The line syncs with the 6dB target and is more than fine.

You mention 3dB being unstable, well this would depend on the length and quality of the line, I believe from various forums that a lot of Be*/O2 customers have a 3dB Target SNR mainly because they want more speed.
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Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

kitz

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2008, 09:57:10 PM »

The recommended SNRM is 6dB. quite often lines need a lot more. afaik theres only Be that allow the 3dB Target SNR, and you need to be on a short and stable good line for that to work.

Most routers will start to get a bit shakey once the SNRM drops below 6dB...  but the ones we recommend as being good will cope with speeds lower.  As broadstairs says.. theres not many that will cope at 1dB.. some may remain connected - theres also a few that will go into -ve figures.. but the line quality at this level is likely to be very bad.  You will be racking up lots of errors and packets that have to be retransmitted.
The re-requesting of packets is what makes the connection slow.
Therefore its just not worth running the SNRM very low because any increase in sync speed will be negated by re-transmits which may actually cause a slower throughput speed.  The end result could well be a slower realtime speed and certainly latency problems, than if you hadnt bothered tweaking the SNRM down that low.

The SNR Margin is there for a purpose - to absorb any line fluctuations and allow for normal SNR fluctuations.

As regards to how much increase it will give you - I wouldnt really like to say,  some some see 400kbps per dB.. some say 500kbps per profile stage (3dB).. it all depends on your line really.  As always the shorter lines tend to fair best.


>> With DMT, all you do is force the router to ignore the DSLAM/MSAN target snr and sync with its own (i think, correct if I am wrong)

Depends on the router.. its basically called over-riding the one set on the DSLAM, by getting it to negotiate at a % OR at dBs lower than set.
IIRC You'll notice that some versions of DMT are different and some set at a % and some at dBs.. hence why you often have to play with the slider to find the right level.

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Rahat

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Re: New Router Question
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2008, 11:25:17 PM »

Because my current setting is 3db on the DMT tool will 100% be 3db?
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