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Author Topic: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8  (Read 17489 times)

GunRunner

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Re: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2008, 12:25:40 AM »

Kitz

Thanks for a very comprehensive reply.  It is greatly appreciated.  I  can confirm I am on 24FSNR6.  Absolutely..yes...so TalkTalk tell me! :thumbs:
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kitz

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Re: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2008, 10:37:38 AM »

>> I  can confirm I am on 24FSNR6

I did think you said you was... but what made me doubt it, is the fact that without tweaking your target SNR you sync with a SNRM of 9dB, and you only get around 6dB when you've tweaked it via the router.

.... either that or the tweak in the router isn't taking for some reason. ???

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GunRunner

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Re: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2008, 09:53:00 PM »

>> I  can confirm I am on 24FSNR6

I did think you said you was... but what made me doubt it, is the fact that without tweaking your target SNR you sync with a SNRM of 9dB, and you only get around 6dB when you've tweaked it via the router.

.... either that or the tweak in the router isn't taking for some reason. ???



I have just had confirmation that I am definitely on 24FSNR6.  Now as far as tweaking the router!  Isn't there a possibility that it is not possible to gain more speed because of the signal limitation with regards to distance of my house from the exchange?  I refer to the graph I posted and that would confirm that my attenuation is 26db and that equates to 1.88 km from the exchange.   That figure is more or less correct and checked on my cars speedometer, and when you read up the graph for this attenuation 26db (equals 1.88km)  you get  around 17600kbps!  My house was built only 15  yrs ago and was an infill and when I look at the routing of the grey boxes on the side of the road, the line comes out of the exchange and goes directly down the road with no detours.  A new BT manhole cover appeared and carried the additional 4 lines for 4 houses directly off the main box on the main road from the exchange. 

To summarize, what I am talking about is the ADSL2+ specification.  I cannot go any faster than ADSL2+ can provide.  It is just a matter of luck that I have a nice clean installation that gives me good SNR margin and never drops! I am thinking along the correct lines arent I?

Now if I had fibre down from the exchange to the main box just around the corner, then that would be another matter would it not? :)
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kitz

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Re: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2008, 12:36:46 PM »

>> Isn't there a possibility that it is not possible to gain more speed because of the signal limitation with regards to distance of my house from the exchange?

According to the max speed calculator your expected limit based on your attenuation is around 18Mbps with a target SNR of 6dB, which you are near as damn it now.

If you have a DMT tweakable router then you should be able to override the Target SNR Margin up to a certain %.  The maximum tweakable figure seems to be % based and it may depend upon the DSLAM, but you should be able to over-ride up to at least a further 3dB.

eg
if your target SNR is 9dB then you should be able to take it down to 6dB
if your target SNR is 6dB then you should be able to take it down to 3dB.
My own Target SNR is 3.5dB, and I can actually tweak down to 0.5dB - not that I'd want to because the line would become way too unstable and I'd clock up too many errors since its too near the 0dB mark which doesnt give any headroom - but it is possible for me to do so and still get sync.


Your sync speed depends upon bit allocation, which in turn depends upon the 'real' SNR minus the 'Target SNR Margin'.

Theres a page which Ive done which isnt actually live yet (still needs proof reading and a couple of edits etc), but if you want to have a read through it - it should give you the general idea of how you sync speed is actually achieved.
Warning - this particular page is a bit more techy than some of the others, and needs and understanding of SNR and SNR Margin.

Anyhow the page which explains your sync speeds is and how adsl actually works is:-ADSL Technology and DMT.
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HPsauce

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Re: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2008, 12:47:09 PM »

Anyhow the page which explains your sync speeds is and how adsl actually works is:-ADSL Technology and DMT.
That is brilliant, just had a first "speed read".
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tonyappuk

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Re: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2008, 01:57:27 PM »

I must add my congratulations to HPSauce's comments about your latest ADSL opus. Your clarity of presentation is masterly. Thanks very much indeed.
Tony
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GunRunner

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Re: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2008, 08:42:20 PM »

>> Isn't there a possibility that it is not possible to gain more speed because of the signal limitation with regards to distance of my house from the exchange?

According to the max speed calculator your expected limit based on your attenuation is around 18Mbps with a target SNR of 6dB, which you are near as damn it now.

If you have a DMT tweakable router then you should be able to override the Target SNR Margin up to a certain %.  The maximum tweakable figure seems to be % based and it may depend upon the DSLAM, but you should be able to over-ride up to at least a further 3dB.

eg
if your target SNR is 9dB then you should be able to take it down to 6dB
if your target SNR is 6dB then you should be able to take it down to 3dB.
My own Target SNR is 3.5dB, and I can actually tweak down to 0.5dB - not that I'd want to because the line would become way too unstable and I'd clock up too many errors since its too near the 0dB mark which doesnt give any headroom - but it is possible for me to do so and still get sync.


Your sync speed depends upon bit allocation, which in turn depends upon the 'real' SNR minus the 'Target SNR Margin'.

Theres a page which Ive done which isnt actually live yet (still needs proof reading and a couple of edits etc), but if you want to have a read through it - it should give you the general idea of how you sync speed is actually achieved.
Warning - this particular page is a bit more techy than some of the others, and needs and understanding of SNR and SNR Margin.

Anyhow the page which explains your sync speeds is and how adsl actually works is:-ADSL Technology and DMT.

Kitz

That was a good read!  Now I have understood what is going on, I have experimented and this is what I have achieved...








I did manage to use as low as 5% in the router and it dropped the line twice  but the sync speed was worse than the 15% that is shown above on the graph that is only for 2 hours.  I can see that around 20 to 25% is going to be nice and stable.  I am just testing as low as this for my own research.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 11:24:52 PM by GunRunner »
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GunRunner

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Re: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2009, 11:53:23 AM »

Here we go after a complete rewire from the IDC connections on the filtered faceplate to a socket in the study (bedroom) with 25 metres of same specification wire as BT uses.  The cost was 0.15p a metre.  It cost me as much to have it delivered.



It is fairly consistent and is always above 16000kbps even during the busy times of the day.  This is 3000 kbps higher all the time than I had when I had the router downstairs and used homeplugs to send the data over the household electrics. 

Noise margin fluctuates between 4.8 and 2.


Thanks Kitz and everyone else for your advice.
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kitz

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Re: New DG834Gv4 and DM Tool version 8
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2009, 09:29:25 PM »

Excellent..  that is a really quite good for a 25.5dB line.

Your SNR fluctuation is perfectly fine - nice result :dance:
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