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Author Topic: ADSL Max problems  (Read 31470 times)

kitz

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2008, 03:31:47 PM »

Quote
The engineer is now going to escalate the problem so that a REIN specialist picks it up.  He said there is a specialist in my area who is very good at finding the source

Good news - just out of curiosity - which part of the country are you in?
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markthomas

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2008, 05:24:04 PM »

I live in Somerset...

Mark.

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kitz

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2008, 05:32:44 PM »

okies thanks for that.   :)
I was just wondering, since theres relatively few REIN specialists in the UK.. one of whom frequents this forum
- and I was only being nosey really, to see if you were in his area, but youre not.

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markthomas

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2008, 11:41:43 AM »

Just when things were going so well I have had an update from UKO tech support...

BT have updated the call simply to say there is nothing more they can do and the speed I am experiencing is all my line is capable of.  I can either accept this or have my contract ceased.  They have told UKO that they won't accept any further faults for my line.

Having had an engineer visit my house only yesterday to confirm that I have excessive REIN on my line (as clearly shown by routerstats) and that a specialist needs to visit to detect the source I simply cannot believe their attitude.  UKO are now trying to phone them back to ask them to escalate the fault to the right team but aren't confident that they will.

I really don't know where to go with this...  I could ask UKO to switch me to their 2mb fixed rate product, but BT's attitude has made me so angry that I am more determined now to get the REIN issue resolved.

Ezzer - if you are reading this I really need your help!

Mark.
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Ezzer

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2008, 12:47:53 PM »

Woops missed the comments from the 31st, soz.

I'm just wondering how the last job an engineer was closed, the reason for this is thta any fault will have a "clear code" which states what and where the fault was. Theres a huge list, there was a briefing sent out with the broadband clear codes, the REIN ones were missed off so many arn't aware of them. With the right code the the job details as I understand gets highlighted to the REIN group who will raise a new job and get it pinned to the local REIN guys. The last couple of ones I had I go due to the engineers calling our control so they could intervene and pin me the job manualy as they wern't aware of the clear codes. Otherwise it comes down to what the ISP wants to do based on the job notes. I'm thinking the're not familiar with REIN as it's an unusual fault.

Your locating the noise apparently comming from the pumping station seems quite likely to be the source, What you've done to locate it and tie it up with your drops of service is spot on. unfortunately if thats the case then there's nothing bt can do directly. I'm not sure what exactly happens here but I assume the REIN SFI desk would ger in touch with offcom as they have the power to act against any unauthorised or interfering forms of radio emmission. If I had this fault then it's a case of my identifing as best I can that the source is causing an issue with your dsl, then the Ofcom guy has kit which can directonaly locate noise soruces across a wide range of frequencys and they have the power to interceed. I think this covered only by ofcom as otherwise we could have all sorts of bodies running round demanding all sorts of kit is shut down.

REIN can come from a single source as a point, or broadcast it back down the mains so all the local wiring is acting like an antennea. on the flip side all or part of the telephony can act as a reciving antennea from the cableing up to and including the router. and some times it's a case of one particular set up by fluke being in tune with the noise so one person in a locality suffers where as the others nearby much less so.

The only other things would be a change in e-side cable (never had a REIN cured by this) chnage in d-side (same result here) and an rf3 filter fitted, very occasionaly helps, (hence I have a test nte5 where I've built in an rf3 via a 8pole/double throw switch as a quick way of checking).

I would say keep herranging your isp to raise a REIN issue so those channels can be followed, otherwise I know you can contact ofcom your self with radio interference issues although I'm not sure how they will react in the case of  a broadband fault and may refer you back to your ISP. There was somehting that came up localy, nothing to do with dsl but a chap was sure that his key fob wouldn't lock the vehicles within 50m of his house after a bt aerial cable was recently installed nearby, he got ofcom to send one of thier specialists over who located the source as the trickle heater in his motor home. Apparently he got a £314 bill for the call out from ofcom

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markthomas

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2008, 01:30:07 PM »

Thanks Ezzer...

I am more than happy to accept that BT may not be able to do anything to correct the fault causing the REIN.  All that I am interested in at this stage is identifying it.  I 'm quite happy to deal with the owner of the faulty equipment (Wessex Water if it's the pumping station) myself if needed and then escalate to Ofcom if I cannot get it resolved.  However I don't really want to go to Wessex Water without further investigation from BT, after all it could be one of the houses next to it.

I have no idea how the BT engineer closed the call but when UKO call me back I will query that with them.  It's really annoying, particularly when the engineer was chatting to me yesterday about the local REIN specialist and how only a few weeks ago he found a CCTV device taking out ADSL to six houses just 10 miles from where I live.  I just need someone to arrange for this chap to pay me a visit... all I seem to have managed to get is a threat to cease my ADSL contract and the refusal of any further faults!  The fact that my router initially syncs at 2mb and then disconnects and re-syncs at 800k as soon as the REIN kicks in should at least tell them something is wrong.

Thanks for your advice, if you can think of anything else I should tell UKO to try and get this to the right team please let me know.

Mark.
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markthomas

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2008, 01:45:13 PM »

Ezzer... just thought of another question...

Based on what you have said about how REIN can be broadcast is it worth me plugging my router into a mains conditioner?  I have asked this already in this thread and the consensus of opinion was that this wouldn't help... I suspect this correct but could you just confirm?  I would need to buy/hire such a device but I would be willing to try it if you thought it might workaround the issue.

Thanks,

Mark.
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Ezzer

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2008, 01:52:21 PM »

I belive the REIN team are part of the BOU which is within BT wholesale. The ISP needs to get wholesale to raise a fault specifialy as REIN. The only problem with broadband faults is by the time the engineer gets the job the note are usualy non existant or gobbledigook, and we don't get to see any engineers notes from a previous fault. We all end up having to contantly talk to each other about jobs wev'e been on more so than pstn faults to give each other a heads up.

The kit we use is an ordinary portable MW radio as well as the normal van radio as I get close to site, and something called a 444b which in effect is a radio which listens to everything from 1khz-1mhz. the one I got hasn't a directional aerial and can be useless in a lot of cases because I pick up radio5 across most of the county from a couple of transmitters which drowns out any REIN in the back round (although it did the trick when I had the fault Supercooper had a string on).

Otherwise it's case of tieing the noise with the change in stats. I fell into REIN out of curiousity. A customer told me, "Don't know what you can do unless bt kit you with an air rifle. Whenever the security light switches on at the show home over there I loose broadband." I heard about using a radio, tuned in the van radio and parked up by the show home and stuck a bit of paper on the end of my measuring rod we use for checking the height of cables. covered the pir and low and behold Buzzzzzzzz. sure enough sync dropped at the same time. Mind you there's plenty of times when I've picked up a distinct noise, located and switched off the source only for the problem to still be there. So picking up a distinct noise dosn't mean its the problem.
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Ezzer

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2008, 02:01:51 PM »

Ezzer... just thought of another question...

Based on what you have said about how REIN can be broadcast is it worth me plugging my router into a mains conditioner?  I have asked this already in this thread and the consensus of opinion was that this wouldn't help... I suspect this correct but could you just confirm?  I would need to buy/hire such a device but I would be willing to try it if you thought it might workaround the issue.

Thanks,

Mark.

I'd doubt it although any thing is possible so I won't say 100% not. I have had success if it's interference fed back via mains by moving nearby plug adaptors eithe to a new position relative to the router or just by moving it at 90 degrees to the original position.

 Had one just over a month ago. Turned out it was the customers router which generated the REIN. problem was everyone who tryed testing could,t get sync either. I moved the 4 way power adaptor at 90 degrees and my modem sync'ed. Later a colleage asked "How the hell are you supposed to spot that ?". The first time I had one like that it was pure fluke.

 It's made me think about how emf works. when you consider how wer'e bathed in emf all around us and how broadband works and the extreme performance thats extracted out of it It's amazing it works as well as it does
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kitz

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2008, 02:29:09 PM »

Quote
It's made me think about how emf works. when you consider how wer'e bathed in emf all around us and how broadband works and the extreme performance thats extracted out of it It's amazing it works as well as it does

I must admit - me too.   Particularly when a 60dB line only receives 1 millionth of the original signal strength that was sent out from the dslam.  :o
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Oranged

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2008, 02:37:19 PM »

Mind you there's plenty of times when I've picked up a distinct noise, located and switched off the source only for the problem to still be there. So picking up a distinct noise dosn't mean its the problem.

What a wonderfully rewarding job you must have  :no:
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Ezzer

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2008, 02:44:14 PM »

It's great when you can pinpoint exactly what the problem is and sort it. ;D

Definately not when you and up walking away wondering if what ever the problem is is going to reappear after you've gone because it wasn;t doing the effect while your there. End up tweaking thinks in a hope you may have made things unvenerable to the problem  >:(
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markthomas

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2008, 07:49:36 PM »

Just has another call from UKO and it seems that today's fiasco was all caused by a bit of an oversight by the agent acting for BT Wholesale...

UKO tech support escalated the issue again and discovered that in actual fact a separate case had been initiated for another engineer visit.  UKO have no visibility of the case so don't know if it's for a REIN specialist but it sounds hopeful.  The engineer is coming tomorrow.  Apparently I don't need to be home but I might be here just in case.

UKO tech support are going to update me as soon as they hear back from BT Wholesale.

This is turning into something more like Eastenders than an ADSL fault...  ;D

Mark.
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markthomas

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2008, 01:42:32 PM »

Well the BT engineer has visited, he wasn't the REIN specialist (they call them PTO's) but has pinpointed the source.

It is the pumping station as we suspected  :).  I showed him the stats from routerstats and also how my line syncs at 2mb/12db, disconnects when the REIN kicks in and then re-syncs at 800k. 

When the SN margin dropped he went off in his van and said he could hear the noise as soon as he turned out of my road into the road where the pumping station is.  He waited outside the pumping station and could even hear the pump winding down as my SN margin increased.  Whilst he was there a lady came out of a house opposite the pumping station to return some equipment that another BT engineer had left on a previous visit.  He asked her about her broadband and she said it was constantly disconnecting!  He now suspects that all 30 houses in our development are being affected in some way.

He explained that pumping stations are connected to the phone system for remote monitoring.  It is possible that this is how the interference is entering the phone system.  He is now escalating the call to the REIN desk so that they can deal with Wessex Water.  He is not expecting it to be fixed quickly but something should get done.

A big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread... I have learn't loads about ADSL these past couple of weeks.  I will continue to update the thread with any updates and I'll be sure to post my stats once it's sorted  ;D

Thanks,

Mark.
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roseway

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Re: ADSL Max problems
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2008, 01:56:30 PM »

That sounds quite plausible Mark. Good news. :)
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