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Author Topic: Best VDSL router  (Read 2413 times)

redamo

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2023, 03:56:21 PM »

Do you know when the sync speed dropped from 39999 to 34999?
Sadly, not. It might be after I've swapped my HH6 with my TPL vr2800.

Since my last reply, I've put back my HH6 for 3 days and got these results:
Data rate:9.997 Mbps / 34.998 Mbps
Maximum data rate:10.946 Mbps / 42.191 Mbps
Noise margin:6.4 / 9.1
Line attenuation:28.5 / 21.5
Signal attenuation:28.4 / 21.1


Then, I've switched to a VMG8924-B10A and got this:
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
                G.Vector:   Disable
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   1 day: 1 hour: 23 minutes
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     10.029 Mbps       34.998 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      9.997 Mbps       34.999 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        6.8 dB           11.1 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        7.5 dBm          13.4 dBm
           Receive Power:       -6.4 dBm         -10.1 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols      42.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          21.7 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     11.438 Mbps       49.722 Mbps
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      U4      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):    6.8    31.2    48.1     N/A     N/A    16.3    39.8    61.8   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    6.8    30.6    47.3     N/A     N/A    21.3    39.5    61.9   
        SNR Margin(dB):    6.8    6.8    6.9     N/A     N/A    11.0    11.1    11.0   
         TX Power(dBm):    0.3   -11.7    6.6     N/A     N/A    11.1    8.0    5.0   
====================================================================================


Not sure if it's much better than the TP Link vr2800 though:
DSL Modulation Type: VDSL2
Annex Type: Annex A/L
Upstream Downstream
Current Rate (kbps) 9997 34999
Max Rate (kbps) 12413 46351
SNR Margin (dB) 7.1 10.3
Line Attenuation (dB) 30.4 15.7
Errors (pkts) 0 0


So, in all instances it looks like the cap is there although I've got slighly different SNR, Line Attn, and Max rate but I guess these don't have much (if any) impact to the actual speed and latency.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 04:17:54 PM by redamo »
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j0hn

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2023, 05:29:57 PM »

Looks like the VMG8924-B10A has the highest SNRM and highest max attainable rate. That's basically the speed you would get if the line wasn't capped.

I'm not surprised the VMG8924-B10A was the best of the bunch. It's 1 of the favoured bridge modems on these forums along with the VMG1312-B10A.
I own both, though should really be getting rid of them as I'll never use FTTC again (hopefully).

My advice would be to use the Zyxel for a while to see if the banding removes itself, particularly if used in bridge knife. It's not the best router/access point in the world but it's a great modem.

You could also try capping your sync even lower for a few days as I've seen that "nudge" the DLM in to removing banding by tricking it in to thinking the line is more stable. Something like a 30Mb/s cap on the sync speed.
Worst case scenario is it doesn't work and you remove the temporary cap and return to 35Mb/s sync.
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redamo

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2023, 07:31:30 PM »

Thanks. I guess there's no reason to keep on trying with alternatives such as Fritz 7530 or Draytek 2862, right?

Also, stupid question, is it possible to cap the sync anywhere from the interface or does it need to be done via the CLI with adsl configure --maxDataRate command?
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g3uiss

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2023, 07:58:04 PM »

No only CLI.  The best advice is always patience  :lol:
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2023, 09:11:26 PM »

Constantly switching devices will just make it take longer as DLM will see it as more instability.
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redamo

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2023, 09:38:18 PM »

Constantly switching devices will just make it take longer as DLM will see it as more instability.
I've always left at least 2 days between switching devices, agree should have been at least 72h which I'll abide going forward.
Anyway, looks like SNR has improved a bit, 10.7 dB/6.2 dB from previous 11.1/6.8 values as shown in the graph attached, but the line is still capped. I'll have a go with the adsl command then I'll leave it like that for a few weeks.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2023, 03:05:54 AM »

Quite the opposite, lower means worse if the sync rates haven't changed.  SNRm is effectively how much spare capacity there is on the line to account for the natural changes in line condition due to the weather changing the ability of the copper to conduct the signal, or any temporary radio frequency interference.

But given the above, its expected to fluctuate, it exists purely so that it can without losing sync.

DLM works on the basis that the less errors it sees, the less the SNRm fluctuates, the lower it can set the target to obtain a faster sync rate.  So the only time SNRm being lower is better, is if you had an increase in sync rate accordingly, as then it suggests DLM has deemed the line stable enough to have a smaller safety margin.
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redamo

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2023, 11:37:14 AM »

Quite the opposite, lower means worse if the sync rates haven't changed.  SNRm is effectively how much spare capacity there is on the line to account for the natural changes in line condition due to the weather changing the ability of the copper to conduct the signal, or any temporary radio frequency interference.

But given the above, its expected to fluctuate, it exists purely so that it can without losing sync.

DLM works on the basis that the less errors it sees, the less the SNRm fluctuates, the lower it can set the target to obtain a faster sync rate.  So the only time SNRm being lower is better, is if you had an increase in sync rate accordingly, as then it suggests DLM has deemed the line stable enough to have a smaller safety margin.

Something odd happened last night but now it's synced to 40/10 with 9.1/7.3 SNR, so I guess it's ... better?  I was planning to replace the longer modem cable and the adsl filter with a short cable without the filter (as I'm not using a phone) but not sure if I should disturb the line now. BTW, I'm not using the test socket as the builder thought that placing it near the entrance on a narrow hallway is a good idea.

====================================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
                G.Vector:   Disable
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 10 hours: 0 minute
====================================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     10.029 Mbps       39.999 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      9.998 Mbps       40.000 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        7.3 dB            9.0 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        7.6 dBm          13.5 dBm
           Receive Power:       -6.0 dBm         -10.2 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols      45.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          21.6 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     10.982 Mbps       49.373 Mbps
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      U4      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):    6.8    31.2    48.0     N/A     N/A    16.3    39.7    61.8   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    6.8    30.5    47.2     N/A     N/A    21.3    39.4    61.9   
        SNR Margin(dB):    7.2    7.2    7.3     N/A     N/A    9.0    9.0    9.1   
         TX Power(dBm):    0.7   -11.5    6.5     N/A     N/A    11.0    8.0    5.8   
====================================================================================

            VDSL Counters

           Downstream        Upstream
Since Link time = 21 sec
FEC:      2501      0
CRC:      2      0
ES:      1      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 47 sec
FEC:      59      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:      338      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 12 min 47 sec
FEC:      5411      172
CRC:      555      9
ES:      12      3
SES:      10      0
UAS:      37      27
LOS:      1      0
LOF:      7      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:      8119      18
CRC:      0      3
ES:      0      3
SES:      0      0
UAS:      175      175
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Total time = 1 days 21 hours 12 min 47 sec
FEC:      13530      190
CRC:      555      12
ES:      12      6
SES:      10      0
UAS:      212      202
LOS:      1      0
LOF:      7      0
LOM:      0      0
====================================================================================

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mofa2020

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2023, 12:21:26 PM »

Whatever happened, your line is perfect now and DLM has removed the banding from line.. no need to disturb the line now or later, let the zyxel do its magic.
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redamo

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2023, 01:46:58 PM »

Whatever happened, your line is perfect now and DLM has removed the banding from line.. no need to disturb the line now or later, let the zyxel do its magic.
Shouldn't it sync at 50/10? I'm on Fibre 1, the package says:
Your normal available download speed will be between 32-50 Mbps
Your normal available upload speed will be between 7-9 Mbps
Your minimum guaranteed download speed will be 28 Mbps


And from the BT broadband checker page:
Featured Products   Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)   Upstream Line Rate (Mbps)   Downstream Handback         
VDSL Range A (Clean)   56.8   40   11.7   7.5   35   Unavailable   Available   --
VDSL Range B (Impacted)   55.7   35   11.5   7.1   32.4   Unavailable   Available   --

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j0hn

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Re: Best VDSL router
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2023, 02:21:44 PM »

BT Fibre 1 is either 40/10 or 55/10.
BT pick the package depending on your estimates.

Anyone who is close to 40Mb estimates gets put on 40/10. Looks like you're on 40/10 and your banding is now gone.

It is possible to get BT to change your package to 55/10 but I would not recommend trying this over the phone. I've only ever seen it done via moderators on the BT Community Forums. They can see your line is on the 40Mb max and have the package changed. There's no guarantee they will do this though as technically you are meeting the estimates of your line (32-50).

It's worth a try. The worst they can say is no.
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