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[oua]

Hi all, new here and not really sure where to start but I will offer some background and why I'm here looking for some help!!

Up until January this year everything was pretty normal with a zen VDSL2 line offering approx. 25/8 (D/U). Throughout January the download speed decreased steadily down to 15mb whilst the upload speed remained the same. After getting no where with Zen I decided to try the SOGEA service from Open Reach (I kept the zen account open just in case).

This line is now up and running and bouncing between 55/14 (D/U) and 14/7 on a daily basis. I am also finding the line is dropping out at least once a day for a minute or so. At worst the line has dropped + 10 times in a 24 hour period. I've had 2 visits from Open Reach, both times they have said there is nothing wrong with the line. One Engineer suggest looking into the possibility of REIN.

I have 2 x Draytek Routers - a 2865 with the Zen line attached (which has now degraded to 5/6(D/U)) and a 2765 with the SOGEA line attached.

Is there info I can give you - line stats etc that will help nail down or get me closer to where the cause of the problem may lay?

The OR Engineer seemed very competent and his diagnosis of REIN being the cause could well be correct but I can't think of anything that could be causing it.   

Appreciate any help or advice.

Thanks.

[j0hn]

Is there info I can give you - line stats etc that will help nail down or get me closer to where the cause of the problem may lay?

Post a full copy of the xDSL statistics page from the Draytek. It's easier to just post the whole lot rather than looking for specific info to share.

[oua]

Attached.

It may be worth noting that both lines share the same twisted pair cable that enters the property. The only thing I can find in common is that they both struggle. The drop offs seem to be independent. Both routers are sat within a meter of each other.

[tubaman]

Withe very large number of ES and SES on the upstream side there is clearly something not right.
It'd be worth running DSLstats against one or both lines for a while so you can better understand what is happening when the line drops. REIN is unfortunately a distinct possibility if the issue is of an intermittent nature.

[oua]

Withe very large number of ES and SES on the upstream side there is clearly something not right.
It'd be worth running DSLstats against one or both lines for a while so you can better understand what is happening when the line drops. REIN is unfortunately a distinct possibility if the issue is of an intermittent nature.

Thanks. sorry - basic questions.

What do you mean by running DSLstats for a while and also what am I looking for?

[j0hn]

Withe very large number of ES and SES on the upstream side there is clearly something not right.
It'd be worth running DSLstats against one or both lines for a while so you can better understand what is happening when the line drops. REIN is unfortunately a distinct possibility if the issue is of an intermittent nature.

The upstream numbers don't reset on many Lantiq chipsets, including Drayteks.
I've seen new lines report tens of thousands of ES/SES. I think it's historic figures reported by the DSLAM.
Those upstream numbers might be months or years worth.
It could also just be a really bad line and they are accurate.

The difference between attainable (max rate) and the sync speed suggests something is very wrong, particularly with retx on both the downstream and upstream.

[Alex Atkin UK]

The upstream numbers don't reset on many Lantiq chipsets, including Drayteks.

Isn't that when the DSLAM is Lantiq, not the modem?  Both lines appear to be Broadcom.

I'd be tempted to try a Broadcom modem/router on one of the lines as on very rare occasions some modems just don't like certain lines and its really odd they're both syncing with such a high SNRm.

[oua]

I'm pretty sure the Draytek routers reset their DSL Stats upon reboot. The stats above are for a 6 Day period. Any pointers on which Broadcom modem/router would be a good starting point?

I should have mentioned out at the start - I work for an AV company and technically this is for a client (I've been installing Draytek routers for over 10 years) but it's peaked my interest enough for me to be sat here in my personal time looking for answers.

Thanks again for the help.

[tubaman]

Thanks. sorry - basic questions.

What do you mean by running DSLstats for a while and also what am I looking for?

It's this - http://dslstats.me.uk/ - and allows you to monitor the line on a minute by minute basis. If it is a REIN issue it'll help capture the times when the errors are occurring which may assist with identifying the cause. You do however need compatible Broadcom based modems to be able to use it. There's a compatibility list on the DSLStats site although it's a bit old now. We like the Zyxel devices here as they seem to work pretty well with most lines. 

[oua]

It's this - http://dslstats.me.uk/ - and allows you to monitor the line on a minute by minute basis. If it is a REIN issue it'll help capture the times when the errors are occurring which may assist with identifying the cause. You do however need compatible Broadcom based modems to be able to use it. There's a compatibility list on the DSLStats site although it's a bit old now. We like the Zyxel devices here as they seem to work pretty well with most lines. 

That's helpful, thanks.

[oua]

Isn't that when the DSLAM is Lantiq, not the modem?  Both lines appear to be Broadcom.

I'd be tempted to try a Broadcom modem/router on one of the lines as on very rare occasions some modems just don't like certain lines and its really odd they're both syncing with such a high SNRm.

When the SOGEA line returns to the higer speed the SNR is about 5 for the down and 6 for the up. Currently the line hasn't disconnected for over 60 hours which is a record but we are getting 12d/10u with the high magins.

I do have the VDSL SNR set to 50 (via the console)

[oua]

Morning all.

The line has now been up for 80hrs which is the longest I seen though the speed is at 12d/10u. Where are the speed adjustments being made? Would this be the ISP making adjustments get to the line stable or would it be the router?

I also noticed something odd on the tone. I've not seen a spike as high as this before. I don't know if this is telling in any way?

[j0hn]

Isn't that when the DSLAM is Lantiq, not the modem?  Both lines appear to be Broadcom.

I don't think so. Here's a thread showing the same on a Broadcom cabinet (Draytek modem). I found a few examples with a quick Google search.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=26659.0

The OP also has UAS that are WAY higher on the upstream suggesting that issue still exists. I wouldn't believe those upstream figures to be fully accurate, especially with retx enabled.

[Edinburgh_lad]

John is right about Draytek routers not resetting (after reboot) stats on the upstream.

Looking at your stats, your SNR is very high for the downstream. You can use CLI to bring the SNR down, but looking at your error count, it looks like there's an issue. (At 15dB, you shouldn't see any CRC errors on a standard line.)

https://www.draytek.com/support/knowledge-base/4800

[oua]

Is there anything here that may make OR change their mind about the line being OK? We are being threatened with £200 call out charges if they don't find a problem.