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[bogof]

Not that different to my AAISP setup:

I do get faster single threads to some other test sites.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Single-thread is where I would expect AAISP to beat almost everyone else, being a tighter managed network.

[dee.jay]

Only caveat to AAISP is that it'll be on the Openreach OLT system so the congestion is not entirely under AAISP control - thinking about the access layer being a shared medium. You are contending with all other OR based customers ultimately.

[XGS_Is_On]

Single-thread is where I would expect AAISP to beat almost everyone else, being a tighter managed network.

AAISP manage a fraction of the network. Believe they've exactly 2 locations where they take feeds from their suppliers and everything else to get the data from you to those two locations is managed by someone else.

[craigski]

20th today - reading thread above looks like its install day

[jaydub]

It was indeed.

FTTP connected with only one minor hiccup.  I couldn't connect until the OR (actually M J Quinn) Engineer had signed off the job, which he seemed surprised about.

All good here.  I went for an 80/20 FTTP connection and the speedtest results are certainly no worse than my FTTC connection (in spite of the lingering presence of Zen wholesale connection)

Just been tracking the ping results on TBB and f8lure.mouselike.org and they are marginally quicker but perhaps a tad noisier.

I may link a couple of before and after results later, if there looks to be anything out of the ordinary for you guys to comment on.

[Alex Atkin UK]

AAISP manage a fraction of the network. Believe they've exactly 2 locations where they take feeds from their suppliers and everything else to get the data from you to those two locations is managed by someone else.

So they have zero control over contention before their PoP?

I'm honestly considering them once CityFibre reaches here to replace the Three 5G, for more consistent performance with decent latency.  You think that would be better or worse than OR?  Although in reality, I kinda doubt were going to see major contention issues on either network.

It was indeed.

FTTP connected with only one minor hiccup.  I couldn't connect until the OR (actually M J Quinn) Engineer had signed off the job, which he seemed surprised about.

All good here.  I went for an 80/20 FTTP connection and the speedtest results are certainly no worse than my FTTC connection (in spite of the lingering presence of Zen wholesale connection)

Just been tracking the ping results on TBB and f8lure.mouselike.org and they are marginally quicker but perhaps a tad noisier.

I may link a couple of before and after results later, if there looks to be anything out of the ordinary for you guys to comment on.

That could be interesting as I don't think we've seen that combination of speed tier and backhaul before.  Pretty disconcerting if Zen backhual still isn't perfect on a slower tier.

[dee.jay]

I think some folks around here would claim that the attraction of AA as a provider who will help you when you have a copper fault becomes less compelling as fibre intrinsically brings with it less issues such as crosstalk etc.

However there is much more to it than that; the network is relatively small as there are a small number of customers. I’ve never once had any congestion issues. However, can’t say I ever experienced them with Sky with all the years I had a connection with them.

Of all the OR based providers though I’d go AA

[Alex Atkin UK]

Yeah but the costs add up, as I recall Zen was £10/month more than Talk Talk, and AAISP are £25/month more than Zen - for a comparable service to what I have!  That's as much as I pay for a 5G failover service from Three and even there I could bring the price down if I weren't on a monthly contract.

AAISP also charge a lot for a fresh install on OR despite being a 12 month contract.  They're much better value on CityFibre though than OR, especially given its a monthly contract with 1/10 the installation fee (for now).

[dee.jay]

Oh absolutetly - it isn't cheap!

[XGS_Is_On]

So they have zero control over contention before their PoP?

Basically. They can ensure their NNI to the network provider isn't contended but beyond that they have to raise support tickets to the provider. Their direct involvement in their customers' broadband connections is the bit in between where their wholesale providers deliver the data to them in the general London area and the wider Internet. They take L2TP sessions carrying PPPoE from their providers aggregating their customers nationwide, terminate the PPPoE, then route the IP inside it to the wider Internet.

They can of course raise support tickets and make demands of their wholesale providers with a threat to withdraw their customer but they've zero direct control and that's pretty standard for ISPs.

[XGS_Is_On]

I'm honestly considering them once CityFibre reaches here to replace the Three 5G, for more consistent performance with decent latency.  You think that would be better or worse than OR?  Although in reality, I kinda doubt were going to see major contention issues on either network.

You're not comparing like for like there. A&A rely on Openreach between customer and OLT then BT Wholesale between OLT and themselves. CityFibre handle it all on that side of things.

I can't see us seeing contention on either network to be honest. CityFibre seem to have some idea what they're doing, BT Wholesale have learned some bitter lessons from the past. They had some horrendous contention issues way back when due to not upgrading routers in a timely fashion. I won't go too much more into it and if you believe a major figure in BT it never happened but they were lackadaisical about upgrading some kit and it bit them hard when they ran out of ports and backplane capacity.

Lessons seem to have been learned. I don't think it'll make a difference either way beyond that Openreach's offerings suck on upstream to try and protect their DIA revenue.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Yeah I get there is a huge difference, which ironically is likely to make CityFibre cheaper and easier to deal with.  They shouldn't suffer the same issues where when a problem occurs OR can blame BTW and BTW can blame the ISP.  Starting from scratch I'd imagine the whole network can be more efficient due to not having to deal with legacy cruft, although probably has less redundancy in the ISPs PoP?

I still wish we had less reliance on all ISPs terminating in London, so that gaming between people within the country could route more directly - but then the latency now were going to fibre and games all moving to being server-based anyway, makes it kinda redundant anyway.  Its just eye opening when you've been on a local network (Digital Region) where peer to peer traffic to another person on the same network was almost LAN latency.

[XGS_Is_On]

We're a pretty small country and some ISPs insist on using PPPoE.

My main ISP do not: I'm fully routed from the exchange onwards and would see very low latency to someone connected to the same OLT. This is uncommon: even Sky and TalkTalk are more likely to have a switch in the exchange to connect to Openreach and a router at the end of a chain of many exchanges.

[jaydub]

It was indeed.

FTTP connected with only one minor hiccup.  I couldn't connect until the OR (actually M J Quinn) Engineer had signed off the job, which he seemed surprised about.

All good here.  I went for an 80/20 FTTP connection and the speedtest results are certainly no worse than my FTTC connection (in spite of the lingering presence of Zen wholesale connection)

Just been tracking the ping results on TBB and f8lure.mouselike.org and they are marginally quicker but perhaps a tad noisier.

I may link a couple of before and after results later, if there looks to be anything out of the ordinary for you guys to comment on.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the functional performance of the line, however it is doing something slightly interesting on the TBB BQM graph in that the minimum latency has a wave profile.



The f8lure.mouselike.org chart isn't showing the same pattern as far as I can tell, but the graphs are smaller (see attachment)

Ignore the red bands,  I was doing a bit of redecorating around the ONT!

Any thoughts?