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Author Topic: AA DSL Misery  (Read 150253 times)

Weaver

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AA DSL Misery
« on: December 06, 2022, 07:55:26 PM »

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Black Sheep

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2022, 08:15:27 PM »

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Weaver

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2022, 09:16:26 PM »

« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 09:25:42 PM by Weaver »
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Weaver

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2022, 09:43:46 PM »

« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 10:22:29 PM by Weaver »
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Black Sheep

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2022, 09:55:39 PM »

It very much sounds like the 'bottom line' has now been breached, and it's no longer viable to provide you with a DSL service on L4.

Of course, it's all guess work on our behalf, as we're not involved with it personally. But I would imagine the amount of fault tickets raised against faults found are probably in the extreme ??
Not judging here, just (as always) pointing out the suite of tests that OR have to follow once a fault ticket has been raised ... you'll know them like the back of your hand now ... and the action to be taken based upon those results. If, the cone of acceptance (CoA) is achieved on all tests then ... you know the rest.

The tests have all been agreed with the ISP's. The tests are all logged. The tests can all be viewed by the ISP.

I've also mentioned a very powerful tool that has been available to engineers recently (and I would imagine the 'high repeat report triage team'), that can look at ALL broadband circuits and can be drilled down to single DP's (poles etc), or a number of same locality DP's, to check on how each circuit is performing in relation to the others.
When I say the engineer can go down to a granular level, I'm totally under-stating it ..... it is a fantastic tool for highlighting REIN and can even pull of a PSD mask of each circuit.

My own feelings are that there are probably a number of things coming together that dictate it is nobody's interests at all to maintain L4, financially of course.

I've seen it before probably 12yrs plus ago now, whereby I had a geezer who was like our very own Max on here ... there were engineers visiting site almost daily and nothing was ever found to be faulty. It took about a year, but eventually faults were refused to be taken against the gentleman, unless a definite line condition was found on the remote RAT test.

You may be a victim of your own scrutiny here, there were obviously times where a hard fault existed on the circuit, but there may have been many more where an intermittent burst of errors were also seeing a fault ticket being raised ??.

As I said above, I'm not involved in this in any way, shape or form ... I can only surmise this to be the case. I wish you all the luck with it, but more luck on getting FTTP. You are never going to have an error-free circuit on DSL where you are, mate.

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Weaver

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2022, 10:41:18 PM »

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burakkucat

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2022, 10:57:47 PM »

. . . the copper is very thick, if I remember you correctly.

0.9 mm diameter copper (cores of the) pairs is my recollection.
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Weaver

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2022, 11:14:08 PM »

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Black Sheep

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2022, 09:57:29 AM »

It is indeed the 0.9mm Cu feeding your premises, well remembered.

My sole aim here, is trying to understand why the refusal to fault one of your lines has been agreed ??
There has to be validity to it, as I suppose you could flag this up to Ofcom and they (knowing this) would have to provide some kind of supporting evidence as to why services have been withdrawn ??

They can't simply turn round and say 'He's a nuisance' :) :)

Just to cover old ground again here, probably 5'ish years ago, a 'High Repeat Report' team were established to cover exactly your kind of issues.
Having been involved with broadband from the very start, I can tell you that in the first few years the training was woeful and the engineering support was too. I myself hold this very forum on a pedestal, as a massive aid to my own personal development in this arena.

So, please believe me when I say that the 'HRR' team that was set-up, was manned by very knowledgeable individuals who could scrutinise circuits along with the best. Coupled with access to other systems mentioned earlier in this thread ... they were found to be a fantastic asset as the time consuming hard-work had all been done, by the time the engineer had picked the fault up.

What I'm trying to imply I suppose is my guess is that somebody of that ilk has done a whole lot of cross-referencing of previous fault reports, outcomes of said reports, general stability of the circuit, performance in relation to other nearby circuits etc etc ...... and decided to draw a line under it.

Not for one minute am I suggesting you don't have an actual fault condition on L$ (or whichever one it is ??), I'm trying (and maybe failing) to get the message over to any of the readership viewing this, that over-scrutiny and constant fault reporting can have an adverse effect if the perceived issue falls within the ISP agreed 'Cone of Acceptance'.

I reiterate, there has to be a valid reason as to why they have stopped raising fault tickets.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2022, 11:01:02 AM »

I still get an eye twitch every time you say "Cone of Acceptance" though, as how can any line failing to sync for hours at a time, and syncing with too many errors to be usable, be considered within it?
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j0hn

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2022, 12:24:17 PM »

Reading your posted quotes it sounds to me that A&A are throwing in the towel.
They are assuming that any more fault reports to OR/BTW "might" end in deadlock.

That should be your choice to make if you want to push the issue that far or they should be honest and say we personally are done with this line.
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Black Sheep

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2022, 01:12:05 PM »

I still get an eye twitch every time you say "Cone of Acceptance" though, as how can any line failing to sync for hours at a time, and syncing with too many errors to be usable, be considered within it?

It doesn't - like I have said above, it could be the other shed-loads of faults that have been raised that were probably within the CoA, or the tweaking of the DLM down to 3/4/5 dB, or whatever ........ that have all played a part with the end result being that on the whole, the circuits MPF is perfectly fine.

I've said it three times now - there HAS to be a reason why they've pulled the plug. Whether Weaver will ever get the real reason or not, who knows. But it reads to an outsider looking in, like AA/BTw/OR have got enough justification to do as they are.
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dee.jay

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2022, 01:31:31 PM »

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Black Sheep

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2022, 02:07:56 PM »

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dee.jay

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Re: AA DSL Misery
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2022, 04:45:52 PM »

Oh, and I hope I wasn't coming across as being critical of any one business. I totally understand where you are coming from on that one and am in total agreement with you. Ultimately - we are stuck with copper for a bit longer - and really we pushing the boundaries of what we can do when you consider the distances involved, plus the remote location where Weaver is.

It was never designed to send internet connectivity at high speeds over long distances...
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