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Author Topic: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?  (Read 10440 times)

Chrysalis

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2022, 08:32:19 PM »

Sounds like maybe you're over paying for bandwidth you don't need then?

I had a pleasant call with with Mikey from AAISP sales support today, I'm going to go with them.  The 10TB Home:1 package has more than enough download allowance for my usage to not be an issue, and even the sales support was really knowledgeable about the product and implementation.  It's a bit more money than I can get something from a mainstream provider, but if that buys me into knowing the network is being run by folk who are actually interested in peak performance, and largely avoids me wasting time running tests to characterise someone else's lacklustre effort, then it will be money well spent, and free up my thinking time for more gainful tasks.

Indeed, I think I will be downgrading to their light user package as that has now become enough for my typical usage.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2022, 10:44:59 PM »

Well it's been a thankless, frustrating and ultimately futile time sink for me in recent months trying to get to the bottom of why Zen's network wasn't performant for me; if I can avoid that sort of thing in future then there is some value there, for sure.  I was already paying £63 a month for Zen so at £85 it's not >that< big of a premium (given I don't actually need unlimited).

Its just so stupid, you'd think it in their best interest to at least offer free service until they sorted it out or how are they ever going to solve the issue?
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Broadband: Zen Full Fibre 900 + Three 5G Routers: pfSense (Intel N100) + Huawei CPE Pro 2 H122-373 WiFi: Zyxel NWA210AX
Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, Netgear MS510TXPP, Netgear GS110EMX My Broadband History & Ping Monitors

bogof

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2022, 11:03:07 PM »

Its just so stupid, you'd think it in their best interest to at least offer free service until they sorted it out or how are they ever going to solve the issue?
I've recently become of the opinion that they probably know what is going on and either don't care as it satisfies the 99%, or have issues addressing (be that due to financial, logistics, 3rd parties, or something else).  There's not much better opportunity to address this sort of thing than having someone technical who can facilitate testing etc, and us geeks don't cost much to keep engaged in a "project", but they've got to at least show interest in the endeavour, which I never really got any feeling of.

They did offer to migrate me back (again) and said they did have a way to be sure migration back back back to the future wouldn't happen, to which the obvious answer is - why didn't it happen the first time.  Maybe I'm just really unlucky, but I doubt it.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2022, 02:15:11 AM »

They did offer to migrate me back (again) and said they did have a way to be sure migration back back back to the future wouldn't happen, to which the obvious answer is - why didn't it happen the first time.  Maybe I'm just really unlucky, but I doubt it.

Well its the old saying, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.  They'd really need to make it worth your while to take the risk.

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Broadband: Zen Full Fibre 900 + Three 5G Routers: pfSense (Intel N100) + Huawei CPE Pro 2 H122-373 WiFi: Zyxel NWA210AX
Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, Netgear MS510TXPP, Netgear GS110EMX My Broadband History & Ping Monitors

bogof

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2022, 09:26:34 AM »

They'd really need to make it worth your while to take the risk.
They never offered and I never asked, and to be honest there's too much of supplier's buying a pass for mediocrity with those sort of schemes.  I noted when I was signing up with AAISP that they don't subscribe to any of the compensation schemes, hopefully it's an indication of just doing the job right instead! :)
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EC300

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2022, 05:42:01 PM »

I'm with AAISP and getting the fastest speeds I've ever seen, and consistently, on the 1000/100 Openreach product, speed test below. 

Previously with iDNET that had me going over Zen backhaul and that was very variable!  Then I moved to Aquiss and that was terrible with very bad congestion and sometimes speeds < 80Meg on bad days, with congestion always starting around 9am weekdays!  They couldn't fix it and let me leave early.  So despite the physical aspects of FTTP being more reliable, the faster speeds show up problems more with the ISPs network and onward routing.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/1665678741112257555  (Note that I have prioritisation for various things and others are here using the Internet so the upload is a bit bumpy at the moment).
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bogof

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2022, 07:45:12 PM »

I'm with AAISP and getting the fastest speeds I've ever seen, and consistently, on the 1000/100 Openreach product, speed test below. 

Previously with iDNET that had me going over Zen backhaul and that was very variable!  Then I moved to Aquiss and that was terrible with very bad congestion and sometimes speeds < 80Meg on bad days, with congestion always starting around 9am weekdays!  They couldn't fix it and let me leave early.  So despite the physical aspects of FTTP being more reliable, the faster speeds show up problems more with the ISPs network and onward routing.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/1665678741112257555  (Note that I have prioritisation for various things and others are here using the Internet so the upload is a bit bumpy at the moment).
Awesome.  I'm looking forward to the move, I go live on 27th.  So far impressed with the people I've interacted with at AAISP.
Glad the performance seems to be there for you :) 

I think frustrations with ISP networks will grow; the last mile connectivity has improved so much with FTTP deployment, and folk quite reasonably expect that to flow through to their connection.  The last mile should logically be the hardest, outside of the sterile environment of the datacentre. 
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bogof

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2022, 08:36:26 AM »

The only thing I have some slight trepidation about with the AAISP FTTP900 service is the new, development nature of the LNS devices; I see a few scheduled reboots in recent times to upgrade owing to SW issues - obviously there are two halves to that.  One is the update itself, which sounds like a managed process unlikely to cause significant downtime as they migrate you to a different, already updated LNS over a matter of seconds.  The other is the issue that they're fixing, and whether it's something that meant you might have some instability, downtime or performance degradation at other times, and the risk that the new version your moving to doesn't also have some hitherto undiscovered issue, though I understand there is a test LNS that probably has the updates deployed to it sooner and so is more likely to catch obvious issues.

I guess you could look at it the other way as a positive though, that the folk who actually design the network HW & SW are very closely linked in to the network you are actually on, and so the likelihood is the hardware if tuned for any application is going to be tuned for their network with max performance, and the chances of getting issues addressed in a timely fashion has to be perhaps higher (though maybe more likely to see issues than with a mature product).
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EC300

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2022, 10:45:20 AM »

The only thing I have some slight trepidation about with the AAISP FTTP900 service is the new, development nature of the LNS devices; I see a few scheduled reboots in recent times to upgrade owing to SW issues - obviously there are two halves to that.  One is the update itself, which sounds like a managed process unlikely to cause significant downtime as they migrate you to a different, already updated LNS over a matter of seconds.  The other is the issue that they're fixing, and whether it's something that meant you might have some instability, downtime or performance degradation at other times, and the risk that the new version your moving to doesn't also have some hitherto undiscovered issue, though I understand there is a test LNS that probably has the updates deployed to it sooner and so is more likely to catch obvious issues.

I guess you could look at it the other way as a positive though, that the folk who actually design the network HW & SW are very closely linked in to the network you are actually on, and so the likelihood is the hardware if tuned for any application is going to be tuned for their network with max performance, and the chances of getting issues addressed in a timely fashion has to be perhaps higher (though maybe more likely to see issues than with a mature product).

The longest uptime I've had with AAISP is 84 days, then not managed more than a week or two since due to the updates. Still when I was with iDnet that was the same with Zen doing stuff every week or two, the difference being you would get no visibility that stuff was happening with iDNet and you were going to get a drop in the connection, with AAISP they tell you and you know why.  Still with a static IP address and FTTP coming back up quickly most connected devices carry on and don't notice these overnight drops, and you do have some control over what time it will happen.

There have also been a couple of occasions during the day when traffic has just stopped with AA, the last one a couple of days ago and they dropped our connections and brought them back up on a different LNS, and so was down 5 minutes or so.  The good thing is the status page is updated immediately so you can check (via a mobile) and know it is not your end which saves all the rebooting and troubleshooting steps we might do otherwise.  Again I've been with other ISPs where things have just stopped, the difference being other ISPs it has taken hours or days to get sorted, often it has to be escalated within their own company then up to the manufacturer of the kit, whereas AA are the manufacturer and they don't have layers of support levels, so fixes are very quick.

I'm sure things will settle down with their new kit.
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bogof

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2022, 11:52:53 AM »

The longest uptime I've had with AAISP is 84 days, then not managed more than a week or two since due to the updates. Still when I was with iDnet that was the same with Zen doing stuff every week or two, the difference being you would get no visibility that stuff was happening with iDNet and you were going to get a drop in the connection, with AAISP they tell you and you know why.  Still with a static IP address and FTTP coming back up quickly most connected devices carry on and don't notice these overnight drops, and you do have some control over what time it will happen.

There have also been a couple of occasions during the day when traffic has just stopped with AA, the last one a couple of days ago and they dropped our connections and brought them back up on a different LNS, and so was down 5 minutes or so.  The good thing is the status page is updated immediately so you can check (via a mobile) and know it is not your end which saves all the rebooting and troubleshooting steps we might do otherwise.  Again I've been with other ISPs where things have just stopped, the difference being other ISPs it has taken hours or days to get sorted, often it has to be escalated within their own company then up to the manufacturer of the kit, whereas AA are the manufacturer and they don't have layers of support levels, so fixes are very quick.

I'm sure things will settle down with their new kit.
Thanks, that's reassuring.

Yes, I did see a couple of notes about daytime drops recently, and they will get me some grief if they happen as the wife works from home, so hopefully they will not become a fixture.  I did get my router set up with 4G failover yesterday though - been meaning to do it for a while.  I might complain about the throughput issues on Zen a lot, but there has very rarely been any daytime interruption to service.
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Weaver

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2022, 01:42:37 PM »

I would talk to them about it.

As a mere ADSL2 user, I’ve been with AA for 12 years now and they have been spectacularly reliable. I’ve chosen 5-7am as the time for LNS updates.
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XGS_Is_On

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2022, 04:53:55 PM »

If interruptions of any length are unacceptable a second service not sharing the same fibre might have to be considered. Whether an alternative network, backup copper or 4G/5G.

It's what I do, and ensures even VPNs only stall for a few seconds before being reestablished.
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bogof

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2022, 04:54:14 PM »

I would talk to them about it.
I'm not sure there's much to talk to them about at this stage (particularly seeing as I've not gone live yet!), it's merely an observation of some of the recent service notifications (and E300's recent experience).  Given the wife relies on working from home most of the week, the right answer to all such matters is probably to make sure I have robustness in my home connectivity arrangements so any provider issues don't cause her a problem, as no ISP can protect against many of the other issues that could happen.  I doubt it is likely to be a frequent occurrence as clearly it wouldn't fly with many. 

The thing that was getting in my way of sorting that was that all my router equipment is in a cupboard under the stairs, and 4G connectivity was almost non-existent in there, but I didn't have a spare ethernet cable out of the cupboard to get the 4G router elsewhere.  I've just worked out how to set up a VLAN across my switches so that I can put my 4G router on a switchport upstairs and VLAN that down to a switchport in the cupboard under the stairs via the ethernet cable that is already there.  Small tech victory! :)
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bogof

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2022, 04:59:01 PM »

If interruptions of any length are unacceptable a second service not sharing the same fibre might have to be considered. Whether an alternative network, backup copper or 4G/5G.

It's what I do, and ensures even VPNs only stall for a few seconds before being reestablished.
Yes, see above, it's the approach I'm going for.
I do have a site-to-site VPN set up in the Ubiquiti router to my office that I'm not sure will work across the 4G link, but to be honest that's unlikely to be an issue.  Might be something to try and work around later.
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Chrysalis

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Re: High performance Openreach FTTP 900 options?
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2022, 06:07:23 PM »

The only thing I have some slight trepidation about with the AAISP FTTP900 service is the new, development nature of the LNS devices; I see a few scheduled reboots in recent times to upgrade owing to SW issues - obviously there are two halves to that.  One is the update itself, which sounds like a managed process unlikely to cause significant downtime as they migrate you to a different, already updated LNS over a matter of seconds.  The other is the issue that they're fixing, and whether it's something that meant you might have some instability, downtime or performance degradation at other times, and the risk that the new version your moving to doesn't also have some hitherto undiscovered issue, though I understand there is a test LNS that probably has the updates deployed to it sooner and so is more likely to catch obvious issues.

I guess you could look at it the other way as a positive though, that the folk who actually design the network HW & SW are very closely linked in to the network you are actually on, and so the likelihood is the hardware if tuned for any application is going to be tuned for their network with max performance, and the chances of getting issues addressed in a timely fashion has to be perhaps higher (though maybe more likely to see issues than with a mature product).

Since I rejoined AAISP a couple of years ago, there has been maybe a few unplanned issues on the LNS's on all that time, it happens but its not frequent or even common, planned work also isnt frequent or common and on planned work you can choose the hour of your outage.

So nothing to worry about there, I also have spent time on the FTTP LNS and was stable.
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