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[Alex Atkin UK]

I read a lot of incorrect or misleading stuff way back when I first got into 5 GHz. That’s why I’ve been befuddled just now.

The manufacturers don't help.  My Ubiquiti Litebeam (an outdoor wireless ISP/point to point link) for example says:

It is recommended to specify at least one non-DFS channel to fallback to in case of many radar events.

Thing is, only 5180-5240Mhz is non-DFS spectrum (channels are technically 5Mhz in width so thats 36-48), and AFAIK are strictly indoor use only.  Yet, they let me pick those, which is in breach of regulatory requirements?

As I understand it the new rules for Band C are stricly indoor-use only as well, as it was previously licensed for outdoor use and those licenses continue to apply where its already in use.  The idea being indoor use is unlikely to interfere with outdoor use.

[Chrysalis]

Which channel are you using as there are plenty of devices that only support the Band A channels (36 - 64).

Using channel 100, I think I remember trying Band A to try and solve it though.

Problem is with my band A there is currently 11 other wifi AP's there, its very congested.

-- edit

Channel 56 was configured, so I did do it, but for some reason channel 100 was live, I restarted the wireless and its back on 56 now.  Out of curiosity I will check the problem devices. (56 is no congestion, all the other APs are on the lower Band A channels).  Only issue is why openwrt switched it to 100 against the configuration which was weird.

I also have my old xbox 360 slim, which cant even detect my 2.4ghz, if I manually input it, it then cannot communicate, DHCP is stuck on a 169.x and manual IP just fails.  (DHCP server log reports everything fine with proper ip allocated to device).

--edit

As I was reading another kitz post, I had the openwrt wifi status window open on the left side of screen and it just switched itself back to 100, bizarre.

Is it DFS?  I found this https://www.digitalairwireless.com/articles/blog/a-quick-guide-to-5ghz-in-the-uk-part-2

Ended up putting it on channel 44, with a hit on performance.  But still better than 2.4ghz.

[Chrysalis]

Amazon are the pits when it comes to WiFi support, they seem to have an American mentality about it, only channels 1-11 on 2.4 and next to nothing on 5ghz.

I agree, for a tech company this is shocking.  Just seems a very lazy implementation.

[Alex Atkin UK]

I agree, for a tech company this is shocking.  Just seems a very lazy implementation.

You expect them to pay for DFS certification?  That's not how you make the big bucks. 

Like why the heck did they put the microphone holes on my Echo Show on the top?  Its becoming less and less responsive due to dust buildup and the holes are so small the dust seems to get stuck in there.  They're also angled away from the screen which surely makes voice pickup even worse, as you're more likely to be facing the unit.

Yet its still able to pickup whenever the wake word is said on TV much clearer than when I try to say it.

[Chrysalis]

Well I guess we lucky not all tech companies have that attitude.

But I wont be buying another firetv stick if this one breaks.

[Alex Atkin UK]

I briefly had the FireTV 4K box, was one of the worst media player boxes I have owned, the only one I ever got so fed up of I returned it.

[Chrysalis]

Setup some Tapo smart plugs, 2.4ghz only dont support channel 13. *shrugs shoulders*

But they do support WPA3 though.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Setup some Tapo smart plugs, 2.4ghz only dont support channel 13. *shrugs shoulders*

But they do support WPA3 though.

Like said before though, channel 13 is pretty much unusable as nearly everything is on 1, 6, 11.  The legacy of channels originally being 22Mhz wide basically messed this up as 1,5,9,13 only became none-overlapping with 802.11g.

Do we know why channel 14 was never opened up as it would have totally solved this?

[XGS_Is_On]

Like said before though, channel 13 is pretty much unusable as nearly everything is on 1, 6, 11.  The legacy of channels originally being 22Mhz wide basically messed this up as 1,5,9,13 only became none-overlapping with 802.11g.

Do we know why channel 14 was never opened up as it would have totally solved this?

Spectrum already taken by:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile-satellite_service and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiodetermination-satellite_service

[Alex Atkin UK]

I can't find specific frequencies mentioned for Mobile Satellite Service other than well below WiFi.

Its also puzzling why Japan allows its use if it is reserved for MSS.

Then theres this https://www.wirelesshack.org/router-channel-14-the-banned-channel.html

[Chrysalis]

Like said before though, channel 13 is pretty much unusable as nearly everything is on 1, 6, 11.  The legacy of channels originally being 22Mhz wide basically messed this up as 1,5,9,13 only became none-overlapping with 802.11g.

Do we know why channel 14 was never opened up as it would have totally solved this?

My 2.4 was setup in mixed mode for WPA2/WPA3, I have temporarily dropped it back to WPA2 only when I made the channel change to see if it fixes the Xbox 360.  Havent tried the 360 yet though to see if it does fix it.  It is possible it might be the issue for the xbox 360, as I know on android 9 it got confused by mixed mode (fixed in android 10 and newer with native WPA3 support).

[Weaver]

If you have no neighbours on 1, 6, 11, and you have a very very heavily loaded 2.4 GHz band with lots and lots of users, then I have seen it argued that the 33% increase that you gain in throughput from having 4 channels available in 1, 5, 9, 13 instead of the usual three, is worth the performance loss from frequency overlap. My WAPs can be configured to use either one or the other deployment patterns, presumably becomes relevant when the AP is doing automatic channel selection.

If you have a lot of neighbours and are crying out for more capacity in 2.4 GHz, then it would be worth getting together with all your neighbours and agreeing to at least all use the same allocation strategy, and maybe at least consider 1, 5, 9, 13.

[XGS_Is_On]

I can't find specific frequencies mentioned for Mobile Satellite Service other than well below WiFi.

Its also puzzling why Japan allows its use if it is reserved for MSS.

Then theres this https://www.wirelesshack.org/router-channel-14-the-banned-channel.html

http://static.ofcom.org.uk/static/spectrum/fat.html

2.4835 - 2.5 GHz   Mobile-Satellite (space-to-Earth) (Primary)
2.4835 - 2.5 GHz   Mobile except aeronautical mobile (Primary)
2.4835 - 2.5 GHz   Radiodetermination-Satellite (Primary)
2.4835 - 2.5 GHz   Radiolocation (Secondary)

Also see the below, extract in attachment.

https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/cc4baeee-63d6-11e3-ab0f-01aa75ed71a1/language-en

[Alex Atkin UK]

If you have no neighbours on 1, 6, 11, and you have a very very heavily loaded 2.4 GHz band with lots and lots of users, then I have seen it argued that the 33% increase that you gain in throughput from having 4 channels available in 1, 5, 9, 13 instead of the usual three, is worth the performance loss from frequency overlap. My WAPs can be configured to use either one or the other deployment patterns, presumably becomes relevant when the AP is doing automatic channel selection.

If you have a lot of neighbours and are crying out for more capacity in 2.4 GHz, then it would be worth getting together with all your neighbours and agreeing to at least all use the same allocation strategy, and maybe at least consider 1, 5, 9, 13.

There is no overlap if everyone is sticking to those channels, that's kinda the point.  Problem is a lot of routers have some very weird behaviour on Auto channel selection and will pick insane numbers like channel 8, or ignore the rule of not using 40Mhz when it overlaps with other networks.

[XGS_Is_On]

If you have a lot of neighbours and are crying out for more capacity in 2.4 GHz, then it would be worth getting together with all your neighbours and agreeing to at least all use the same allocation strategy, and maybe at least consider 1, 5, 9, 13.

Alternatively use the 5GHz radio in your device more, and have it steer devices to it automatically with band steering.

Others should do the same assuming they've that feature on their router, they probably do, to get as much as possible off 2.4. A few minutes perhaps to show them how if they need it.

If in a densely populated area your living space is probably a bit small. WiFi 6e is your friend.

Nothing on 2.4 besides the stuff that can't go elsewhere, likely minimal bandwidth IOT stuff. If it has 6e support use it. Everything else to 5GHz.

There shouldn't be anywhere with tons of devices people actually care about stuck on 2.4 GHz. By default many ISP routers have band steering of some sort activated out of the box and it may do this in a few ways. See attachment.

Very clever - uses the probe when clients see the SSID to assess whether they may be moved actively, if not doesn't respond to the probe or followups for 60 seconds on 2.4G, tries to encourage probing in 5G, and only then starts answering 2.4G probes.

If 802.11v is supported client is allowed to associate then is moved to 5G using 802.11v BSS Transition Management Requests.

Job done with this: should get most of the load onto 5GHz.