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[Alex Atkin UK]

Yes it appears to be a PPPoE service, on VLAN 911. I was thinking that they might drop the need for PPPoE but apparently not. Indeed, they may as well not have any committed rates .

Do AAISP offer any plain IP services?  Given PPP allows L2TP and Broadband to terminate on the same equipment, I guess they're going for the simplistic approach.

The price of their Gigabit with 10T quota package is actually pretty good here, makes the 160M look really expensive in comparison.

[bogof]

Indeed, they may as well not have any committed rates .

Though I see AAISP are perhaps pessimistic in this respect as for BT it's 195Mbps, when competitors are offering laws-of-physics-busting 450-700Mbps guarantees.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Though I see AAISP are perhaps pessimistic in this respect as for BT it's 195Mbps, when competitors are offering laws-of-physics-busting 450-700Mbps guarantees.

They're assuming only one customer per PON is on Gigabit I presume, with everyone else on a very basic service.  Though how contention fairs further up the chain I do not know.

[bogof]

They're assuming only one customer per PON is on Gigabit I presume, with everyone else on a very basic service.  Though how contention fairs further up the chain I do not know.

It's interesting though that the guarantee is so much lower than for BTW.  Is number of users per PON known for Cityfibre?  Or is it because many more Cityfibre customers will likely take the 1G service as the incremental cost is so low?

[Alex Atkin UK]

It's interesting though that the guarantee is so much lower than for BTW.  Is number of users per PON known for Cityfibre?  Or is it because many more Cityfibre customers will likely take the 1G service as the incremental cost is so low?

Good question, I mean given Cityfibre are supposed to be using XGS-PON as standard now for new areas and upgrading other areas at some point, it seems odd for them to have less guaranteed bandwidth.

[Chrysalis]

Pricing less than I expected, basically just a £7 premium over obsolete copper DSL.  Even more interesting the 160m option can be had for cheaper than copper DSL.  Those not in FTTP areas starting to really hurt now.

[EC300]

Good question, I mean given Cityfibre are supposed to be using XGS-PON as standard now for new areas and upgrading other areas at some point, it seems odd for them to have less guaranteed bandwidth.

I guess that sort of assumes the 10G doesn't get contented later.  I suspect they have many 10G fibres all terminating into one 10G backhaul.  It makes it easier for them to fix congestion later as they can just add another one or more 10G backhaul fibres of course, but contention may end up a similar ratio as it would be on 32 properties sharing 1Gig GPON, just now you have 320 properties aggregated together sharing one 10G fibre a bit further in, with congestion happening in an easier to fix place on the net work.

[XGS_Is_On]

A&A are just being realistic with the guarantee: most customers will still go on GPON for now, the April 2023 date is when all new network build will be XGSPON, it'll be way longer converting already built. The fibre shared between 32 premises goes into a CityFibre Fibre Exchange and from there CityFibre collect together the A&A customers on that FEX, merge them with others across England and send them to A&A through some 10 gigabit NNIs.

A&A will be expecting no visible congestion between the CityFibre FEX and their own network and will buy more NNIs from CityFibre as needed: even if it weren't standard for them it'll be in the contracts to not let them congest.

[bogof]

A&A are just being realistic with the guarantee: most customers will still go on GPON for now, the April 2023 date is when all new network build will be XGSPON, it'll be way longer converting already built. The fibre shared between 32 premises goes into a CityFibre Fibre Exchange and from there CityFibre collect together the A&A customers on that FEX, merge them with others across England and send them to A&A through some 10 gigabit NNIs.

A&A will be expecting no visible congestion between the CityFibre FEX and their own network and will buy more NNIs from CityFibre as needed: even if it weren't standard for them it'll be in the contracts to not let them congest.

It still doesn't explain the difference between the guarantees for CF vs BTW - 195 vs 70 is quite a difference.  Do Openreach actually stand behind a 195 number and so A&A just pass that on?  Or is this the difference between the more symmetrical CF offering and BTWs asymmetrical arrangement?

[j0hn]

It's interesting though that the guarantee is so much lower than for BTW.  Is number of users per PON known for Cityfibre?  Or is it because many more Cityfibre customers will likely take the 1G service as the incremental cost is so low?

BTW (that's BT Wholesale) don't necessarily guarantee 195, 450 or 700 (or any figure the provider quotes you).

BT guarantee 450 or 700Mb/s depending on your exchange. They do that off their own backs. They have absolutely no way to enforce it. If your speed falls below their guarantee all they can do is ask their supplier (BTW and Openreach) to look in to it and failing that they pay you compensation or let you leave your contract.

Openreach guarantee providers 110Mb/s downstream on the 160, 330, 550 and 1000/115 products.
So when BT guarantee 700Mb/s to a customer they themselves are guaranteed 110Mb/s from Openreach.

Only the 2 higher upload business tiers from Openreach (500/165 and 1000/220) have a higher guarantee of 220Mb/s.

AAISP are likely giving a higher guarantee on Openreach vs Cityfibre because they trust they can meet it.
They have next to zero experience of Cityfibre. You may find their CF guarantee increases over time.

Number of users per PON is the same on both networks.

[craigski]

Openreach guarantee providers 110Mb/s downstream on the 160, 330, 550 and 1000/115 products.

Hypothetically, is there enough capacity to provide everyone 110Mb/s concurrently? IIRC there are up to ~30 customers sharing 2.4Gb/s.

[iainn]

Yes it appears to be a PPPoE service, on VLAN 911.

The VLAN might not be required. Giganet no longer require it[1]. Of course, PPPoE is still required.

[1] https://www.giganet.uk/faq/how-to-use-my-own-router/

[EC300]

Hypothetically, is there enough capacity to provide everyone 110Mb/s concurrently? IIRC there are up to ~30 customers sharing 2.4Gb/s.

No they can't, you are right there.  They are just providing a guarantee based on real world experience rather than theoretical minimums.  If there is a case where a GPON is so full of customers on higher speed packages they are seeing considerable congestion, I suspect they may just split the 32 and half the number on the GPON, well that is my assumption, not sure if there is any insider info we can learn from anyone here.