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Author Topic: IPV6 traffic  (Read 12181 times)

Weaver

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IPV6 traffic
« on: July 10, 2022, 05:33:08 PM »

Looking at the traffic figures for LINX, in the ‘FLOW’ page, row LON1, average traffic, I see:  IPv4: 3.694 Tbps,  IPv6: 0.124759 Tbps. I’m really quite surprised by that ratio, what ~25x greater IPv4. I would have thought that the modern web browsers’ happy-eyeballs algorithm would cause users to favour IPv6 and I don’t see any particular reason why IPv6 would lose the happy-eyeballs race.

Maybe it means there are a lot of IPv4-only large ISPs still. Isn’t BT Retail IPv6-capable now? (Apart from PlusNet.) Or maybe a lot of that figure is not from web-browsing by ordinary users. Or maybe a lot of IP streaming TV is still over IPv4. I also wonder how much of that traffic is not from domestic users?
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Chrysalis

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2022, 08:19:30 AM »

Because many websites and services are still single stacked, kitz included.

Then all the isp's that are single stacked as well. :(

BT and sky are both double stacked but VM a massive isp is still single stacked.
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Weaver

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2022, 08:25:28 AM »

Perhaps some tools that could help web servers go to  IPv4/IPv6 support would be helpful to webmasters? I’m thinking of the sudden rise in adoption of SSL / TLS and signing for websites a few years back.
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Chrysalis

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2022, 08:49:14 AM »

Perhaps some tools that could help web servers go to  IPv4/IPv6 support would be helpful to webmasters? I’m thinking of the sudden rise in adoption of SSL / TLS and signing for websites a few years back.

If you on something like cpanel or directadmin its really nothing more than a couple of clicks.  Sadly though if it doesnt boost search rankings then most webmasters arent interested, I noticed when google started making https affect SEO then suddenly sites all jumped on it.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2022, 06:46:48 PM »

I suspect this will go on forever, as CGNAT just allows ISPs to not care.

It doesn't help that there are still so many single-stack devices.  My VoIP box the N300 IP seems to be single stack which is insane when SIP especially benefits from not being behind NAT.
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Chrysalis

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2022, 07:00:29 PM »

It needs someone like google to make their services single stack IPv6, if that happened, I would expect to be almost a guarantee that within a very short time ISPs like VM have IPv6 rolled out to prevent a mass exodus of customers.

Then google could add SEO points for IPv6 which would make webmasters comply.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2022, 07:02:33 PM »

Which of course wont happen as it would be suicide for Google.
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Chrysalis

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2022, 07:06:44 PM »

Which of course wont happen as it would be suicide for Google.

I dont think it would be suicide, they are so big and important to people, people would switch ISP so they can continue using google services, but of course they would take a hit to their income which is probably why they wont pull the trigger, there has been talks of it in the past but it never happened.
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Weaver

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2022, 07:16:44 PM »

I hear what Alex says, but I’m unsure. The evidence of the shift to widespread https in web servers mentioned earlier shows that large influential organisations such as Google can in some cases push for change by changing what ISPs and server operators care about. Perhaps in the case of IPv6, it could be another ‘World IPv6 day’ some years ahead, where several years ahead, it is announced that SEO rankings will be such that IPv6 servers will be (slightly) favoured. Such a ranking change could only be minor, but people might be led to believe IPv6 to be more important a ranking factor than was truly the case. We need more IPv6-only webservers, for campaigning reasons. Being brutal with a long pre-announcement phase, that would be the strategy. It could only apply to certain business users and very techie target audiences. I can only think of one just now, off the top of my head: https://loopsofzen.uk/ - hope that’s the correct URL.

I need to find the talk given by Microsoft’s head of their internal corporate network at a conference some years back. Something like https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjHmI-KuPH4AhWbM8AKHeDDBasQtwJ6BAgGEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DiFvaqpW4vLA&usg=AOvVaw2CFg2YoU0ip6sopdItSkO2 - that’s youtube and I need to somehow de-google-garble that URL.

Microsoft corporate IT is an example of how a corporation really really cares about IPv6 a very great deal, surprisingly, and by that I mean going IPv6-only - ie getting rid of IPv4 in all the machines on their internal LANs. This includes the guest WLAN they offer to visitors to their offices. One of the reasons is that the cost of IPv4 addresses per address is going up and MS has already spent several $m on buying big blocks, which are going to be impossible to get at any price.
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gt94sss2

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2022, 07:49:41 PM »

I need to find the talk given by Microsoft’s head of their internal corporate network at a conference some years back. Something like https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjHmI-KuPH4AhWbM8AKHeDDBasQtwJ6BAgGEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DiFvaqpW4vLA&usg=AOvVaw2CFg2YoU0ip6sopdItSkO2 - that’s youtube and I need to somehow de-google-garble that URL.

The above URL is
https://youtu.be/iFvaqpW4vLA

Personally, I think that most people don't care about whether they are using IPv4 or IPv6 - only a few technically inclined users.
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Chrysalis

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2022, 09:21:39 PM »

The above URL is
https://youtu.be/iFvaqpW4vLA

Personally, I think that most people don't care about whether they are using IPv4 or IPv6 - only a few technically inclined users.


Probably true but thats because the big UK ISPs have scooped up IPv4 space so they have lots of it, but when thinking about the wider picture there is some ISPs forced to use CGNAT because they of course entered the game late and dont have enough and datacentres with critical shortage of IPv4 as well.  Most of the public is generally ignorant to these problems.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2022, 09:59:07 PM »

I know at least some VPS providers offer free IPv6 only and you pay extra for IPv4.  I suppose there is a possibility once this cost reaches breaking point that people might consider not paying it.

Although it appears you CAN host an IPv6 only site if you put it behind something like Cloudflares proxy service.  It will access the site over IPv6 then proxy both IPv4 and IPv6.
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Weaver

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2022, 10:36:47 PM »

@gt94sss2 Indeed, agreed. I’d go further and say that many people have no clue which protocol they’re using and very many don’t even know that there are two internets.

But I think that various actors could cause a push for change. Perhaps a marketing campaign for ‘real ale’ ISPs to get a gold star which users are manipulated into looking out for. Apologies for mixed metaphors back there. There is a cost to software developers (like me) in developing, maintaining and testing code for two internets, and app firmware developers who want to switch to IPv6-only will be interested in putting there support behind some a ‘manipulation’ or marketing campaign very vaguely like the World IPv6 days (back in the two years around -what was it 2011 and 2012 ?), and the switchover to ubiquitous https that we mentioned.

It was clear even back thirty years ago that IPv4 had been a big failure, because I suspect that no one originally could imagine a world where one or multiple users per domestic household might have one or more computers, needing many billions of IP addresses. Even if in the 1970s and early 80s one knew about Moore’s Law, then developments such as the www, and miniature mobile computers with RF networking in them, such new applications / raisons d’ être for the internet were not obvious, not immediately predictable. So these drivers, answers to the question ‘why would you want that in your home, or even pocket?’ were altogether new and powerful and broke the internet out of its early role of connecting large machines only at universities and a couple of computing or comms-related corporates, a role which would only need a few tens of thousand IP addresses. Some sites were later even outside the USA! So the size of the 32-bit IP address was, as we know, so very wrong and this got acknowledged way too late, since the 1990s user explosion had already taken place and IPv6 was not even remotely ready, or not even born in time to get installed in that new massive user base.

With the interplanetary/ bundle network protocol, the designers were determined not to repeat their mistake of the late 70s and used variable-length addresses that are pretty much like email addresses, not n-bit numbers, where n is even greater than 128 perhaps. To address all the users on all the planets in the galaxy requires who knows how many bundle protocol addresses; astronomers could perhaps make a decent overestimate. But what happens if suddenly one day the requirements change to require extending the range to multiple galaxies, and a lot of them too?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2022, 12:51:44 PM by Weaver »
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burakkucat

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2022, 10:53:53 PM »

. . . many don’t even know that there are two internets.

<Nit picking mode on>
s/two internets/two internet protocols/
<Nit picking mode off>
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: IPV6 traffic
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2022, 11:30:13 PM »

<Nit picking mode on>
s/two internets/two internet protocols/
<Nit picking mode off>

Indeed.  I mean most people think "the Internet" is the content they can see, they have no clue or care for what is going on behind the scenes.
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