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[jelv]

You forgot to mention the sheep droppings scattered all over the top of the enclosure! 

[Weaver]

> I have tried that for you on three (or maybe four) occasions. The most recent occurrence being just moments ago --

   I remember now. Stupid of me. Do we think the effect of the call operation gets as far as generating a ring signal though ?

@Jelv 

Can our OR engineer do distance measurement (eg like reflectometry) to find faults of this type? Because otherwise it’s not much fun at all examining every joint in turn - or something ?

[tubaman]

... Do we think the effect of the call operation gets as far as generating a ring signal though ? ...

If an engaged tone was being received then the answer is no.

[burakkucat]

Can our OR engineer do distance measurement (eg like reflectometry) to find faults of this type?

If s/he has a time-domain reflectometer (that does not go into "nanny knows best mode" when voltage in excess of the normal, quiescent line, voltage (-48V to -52V) is present) and is able to apply ringing current to the line (from the TAM, possibly) then, when looking from your end towards the exchange "battery", any artefact seen in the trace that "jumps up and down" in synchronism with the standard ringing cadences is likely to be due to a defective joint.

[Weaver]

Clueless.aa.net.uk CQM picture of line 4 just now :

[jelv]

Isn't there supposed to be a warning before horror shows are broadcast?

[Edinburgh_lad]

Hi Weaver

Thanks for letting me know about this topic.

From what you said in the other topic, you're absolutely right about Openreach never permanently applying a fix. It's always a temporary one or one that enables the line to continue operating 'within the parameters'. I understand that one of the parameters may be that the user experiences up to three disconnections per day, but what that these disconnections occur in the most annoying moments (rather than in the middle of the night) Openreach can't be challenged upon.

[Weaver]

@Jelv 

[Weaver]

Openreach did apply a permanent fix today though. Fixed line 4 for good. Water ingress into a joint up on the moor somewhere. Cured my very serious hollow curve disease.

[burakkucat]

Openreach did apply a permanent fix today though. Fixed line 4 for good.

That's good to know. Let's hope it is for good . . . For good until another defect occurs, of course. 

Water ingress into a joint up on the moor somewhere.

That doesn't surprise me. (The haggis' teeth can gnaw through anything, if they are given enough time.)

[Weaver]

BT Fault 5-884480236198 Customers Equipment, Error or Misoperation;Fault Not Found Cleared Whilst Localising
What did the end customer describe as the primary issue ?: 3762.03-Customer Report: End customer informed us that broadband is not stable / intermittent.
Where did you perform the initial PQT ?: 3743.01-\n\n Initial test results: PQT test performed at NTE back plate.
What was the result ?: 3763.02-The test passed with amber parameters on 2022-03-28T15:17:21.
Have you identified any other issue(s) in the OR network ?: 6357.08-\n\n What was found: Other Openreach network fault.
Where was the fault located ?: 743.02-\n\n Actions to resolve: Fault located in the D side underground network.
What did you do to fix it ?: 745.42-The fault was fixed by re-terminating pair in joint.
Have you given any general advice to EC ?: 6159.06-\n\n Advice given to end customer: Optimal speed already achieved.
Where did you perform the final PQT ?: 3835.01-\n\n Final test results: Final PQT performed at the NTE back plate.
What was the result ?: 3836.02-The test passed with amber parameters on 2022-03-28T17:59:01.
What was your final test ?: 3417.03-Final FastTest completed.
What was the result ?: 4000.01-The test passed on 28/03/2022 18:03:58.

[burakkucat]

I have two comments to make about the above quotation --

• The "customer" is A&A.
• The "end customer" is yourself.

It would have been interesting to know the location of faulty joint. If you remember back to last July, 2021, just "three words" would have been sufficient.

[Weaver]

I’m afraid that’s all I have, so I published it as is, many warts and all. I can’t see a "Location:" field in that lot that uses the three words system (something that was new to me, my wife then explained it).

Initially I saw the following, with delight:
    Where was the fault located ?: 743.02
I thought that the number was some kind of TDR-returned distance along the cable. But then I noticed similar numbers associated with adjacent records, so it seems my initial thought about cable distance was hopelessly over-optimistic.

Burakkucat wrote:
> Let's hope it is for good . . . For good until another defect occurs, of course. 

I am cautiously optimistic this time because at least (i) the engineer found something non-trivial and ‘real’, and (ii) actually made a change - he fixed it. The many other call-outs to HCD complaints have most often been cured by an engineer seemingly doing nothing at all. Hence theories about how

• the fix could be due to phoning the problem line, thus applying ring voltage, or
• the fix could be to do with turning modems off for a while then back on again - this requires bad modems. However it would seem the bad modem theory is ruled out now following a thorough modem swapout.

[digression]When confronted by problems that are very very hard to debug, many years of experience has taught me to consider multi-bug scenario, with different problems simultaneously presenting different appearances so that rule-outs can mislead the investigator completely. "It can’t be x, because…”-type ‘negative’ reasoning.[/digression]

[Weaver]

Unfortunately, here we go again, but with line #2 this time. I can let AA know what’s going on. Hollow curve disease detected when I wasn’t even looking for it, spotted it on Monday, with a below-chord-depth of around 2dB later increasing to 4dB. Is it better to let it develop into full badness with very low synch rate before calling OR in ?

The downstream synch rate was at ~3 Mbps but with a downstream SNRM of < 1dB so it was hanging on in there until it wasn’t, lost sync and dropped to 2.5Mbps downstream yesterday.

[burakkucat]

If you can tolerate it, let it fully "ripen" before asking A&A for help.