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[francisuk1989]

Hello
Has anyone been having issues with Zen's INX / lond2 gateways that are double in pings (19ms) but THN / lond1 gateway are fine with 7-9ms?

I'm with Zen on there FTTC 80/20 near to Borehamwood, Also on WBC

Have tried replacing the VDSL router with a Zyxel but makes no differents, I have looked at the DSL stats but on Fast and not Interleaving.

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms fritz,box [192.168.178.1]
2 19 ms 18 ms 19 ms vt1.cor1.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
3 19 ms 19 ms 21 ms lag-7.p1.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.186]
4 21 ms 19 ms 19 ms lag-2.p1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.132]
5 20 ms 19 ms 19 ms lag-1.br1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.153]
6 19 ms 19 ms 24 ms netconnex-gw.zen.net.uk [82.71.254.2]
7 19 ms 18 ms 19 ms po11-13.bdr-rt3.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.22]
8 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms po4-31.core-rs4.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.85]
9 18 ms 18 ms 18 ms pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]

Disconnecting and reconnecting via PPPoE (Not resetting Modem) and then get connected to the lond1 / thn-lon gateway as you can see is 6ms

Tracing route to one.one.one.one [1.0.0.1]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms fritz,box [192.168.178.1]
2 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms vt1.cor1.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.21]
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms ae-3.pe1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.108]
4 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms ae-1.br1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.113]
5 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms lonap.as13335.net [5.57.81.75]
6 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms one.one.one.one [1.0.0.1]

[Alex Atkin UK]

Sure looks like a difference in the gateways.

Seems vt1.cor1.lond1, vt1.cor2.lond1 are fine but your result for vt1.cor1.lond2 is bad.  I can't seem to get routed over that last one to see, so maybe its routing around it now?

Code: [Select]

traceroute to pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com (80.249.99.164) from 82.69.11.30, 64 hops max, 48 byte packets
 1  vt1.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.72.22)  11.570 ms  11.490 ms  11.589 ms
 2  lag-9.p2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.174)  11.860 ms  11.601 ms  12.103 ms
 3  lag-2.br1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.167)  11.772 ms  12.009 ms  11.634 ms
 4  netconnex-gw.zen.net.uk (82.71.254.2)  11.625 ms  11.736 ms  11.586 ms
 5  po11-13.bdr-rt3.thdo.ncuk.net (80.249.97.22)  11.830 ms  11.775 ms  11.507 ms
 6  po4-31.core-rs4.thdo.ncuk.net (80.249.97.85)  12.308 ms  11.760 ms  11.832 ms
 7  pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com (80.249.99.164)  11.534 ms  11.428 ms  11.868 ms


Code: [Select]

traceroute to 1.0.0.1 (1.0.0.1) from 82.69.11.30, 64 hops max, 48 byte packets
 1  vt1.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.72.22)  11.837 ms  26.466 ms  11.830 ms
 2  lag-9.p2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.174)  12.051 ms  12.253 ms  12.311 ms
 3  lag-1.br2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.169)  11.756 ms  12.119 ms  11.843 ms
 4  linx-lon1.as13335.net (195.66.225.179)  13.120 ms  12.701 ms  12.766 ms
 5  141.101.71.2 (141.101.71.2)  13.246 ms  12.730 ms  12.693 ms
 6  one.one.one.one (1.0.0.1)  12.335 ms  12.473 ms  12.335 ms


[g3uiss]

I’ve had this for some weeks. It’s the TTb backhaul as the delay is between my end and and Zen, in my case. Zen can’t and won’t be able to address this issue

[francisuk1989]

Sure looks like a difference in the gateways.

Seems vt1.cor1.lond1, vt1.cor2.lond1 are fine but your result for vt1.cor1.lond2 is bad.  I can't seem to get routed over that last one to see, so maybe its routing around it now?

Yes, Is just the Interxion london gateways that end in (23 and 24), Telehouse North (21 and 22) seem fine.

Code: [Select]

root@fritzdsl:~# traceroute lon-gb-ping.vultr.com
traceroute to lon-gb-ping.vultr.com (108.61.196.101), 30 hops max, 46 byte packets
 1  192.168.178.1 (192.168.178.1)  0.369 ms  0.263 ms  0.485 ms
 2  vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.72.24)  20.321 ms  20.414 ms  19.968 ms
 3  lag-8.p1.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.188)  20.578 ms  lag-9.p2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.208)  20.660 ms  20.308 ms
 4  lag-2.br1.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.195)  20.084 ms  20.160 ms  lag-1.br1.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.181)  20.041 ms
 5  vl32-br1-cer.lon3.choopa.net (195.66.226.176)  21.482 ms  22.274 ms  21.278 ms
 6  *  *  *
 7  *  *  *
 8  *  *  *
 9  108.61.196.101.vultr.com (108.61.196.101)  20.192 ms  20.207 ms  20.242 ms
Manchester

Code: [Select]

root@fritzdsl:~# traceroute mirrors.manchester.m247.com
traceroute to mirrors.manchester.m247.com (89.238.128.76), 30 hops max, 46 byte packets
 1  192.168.178.1 (192.168.178.1)  0.347 ms  0.379 ms  0.312 ms
 2  vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.72.24)  28.928 ms  20.248 ms  20.675 ms
 3  lag-9.p2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.208)  26.223 ms  26.086 ms  26.097 ms
 4  lag-2.p1.wh-man.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.229)  26.448 ms  26.538 ms  26.626 ms
 5  lag-1.br1.wh-man.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.45)  26.259 ms  26.384 ms  26.130 ms
 6  te-9-5-0.core-dc2.man4.uk.m247.com (195.66.244.5)  25.819 ms  26.008 ms  28.564 ms
 7  te-1-3-0.pe3.man4.uk.m247.com (82.102.29.34)  52.122 ms  te-4-1-0.pe3.man4.uk.m247.com (77.243.178.50)  69.593 ms  50.968 ms

I’ve had this for some weeks. It’s the TTb backhaul as the delay is between my end and and Zen, in my case. Zen can’t and won’t be able to address this issue

broadband PoP: nge001.col-re0 if that makes sense to anyone?

[Alex Atkin UK]

When i looked at my Zen account, It says WBC so i guess it was BT Wholesale? Also my PPPoE Auth says

broadband PoP: nge001.col-re0 if that makes sense to anyone?

That would be the interconnect you are using to reach Zens core network, presumably where the PPP session terminates.  In theory, it will be the nearest exchange that has a direct connection to Zen, Colchester perhaps?

Mine says nge001.don-re0, so maybe Doncaster?  Completely guessing here.

Checking on SamKnows, both those exchanges are showing Zen LLU which adds further weight to this theory.

[francisuk1989]

Mine says nge001.don-re0, so maybe Doncaster?  Completely guessing here.

Good thinking for don = Doncaster 

TalkTak nge001.col https://aastatus.net/40761 mentions, Pinner (Harrow) and Maida Vale all in (NW London)

Before switching to Zen, I was with TalkTalk in the same location from 2018-2020 and was on ner001.mlk = Milton Keynes with 6-7ms.

Checking on SamKnows, both those exchanges are showing Zen LLU which adds further weight to this theory.

So true, When i got first connected back in June 2020, I was hitting pings such a 6ms, Its only since about 2021 where things are shocking! - Anyway, spoken to Zen again this morning via live chat but they going to monitor it again for a week but said this last time.

Would be nice if anyone around Essex can confirm?

[kitz]

afaik COL is Colindale.  Colindale is/was one of the major BTw gateways off from the BT Core
 
I used to occasionally see it on my own routing prior to PN getting their own MSILs.

[Reformed]

That would be the interconnect you are using to reach Zens core network, presumably where the PPP session terminates.  In theory, it will be the nearest exchange that has a direct connection to Zen, Colchester perhaps?

Mine says nge001.don-re0, so maybe Doncaster?  Completely guessing here.

Checking on SamKnows, both those exchanges are showing Zen LLU which adds further weight to this theory.

Zen only have NNIs/interconnects to BT Wholesale in London and Manchester. What you're seeing there is the first PPP device in the chain, the one you pre-authenticate against to be directed to Zen.

Your PPP session ends on the Zen network. There is no BTW broadband product that'll deliver connectivity to a bunch of LLU exchanges, the NNIs have ranges and a limited number of nodes customers can be connected via.

Your PPP session goes into an L2TP tunnel when it hits the NGE / BRAS, and gets switched across LTS / L2TP Switches until it gets to Zen, where it lands on the Zen LNS.

The connectivity Zen have in exchanges is to Openreach not BT Wholesale.

EDIT: NGE seems to say some other backhaul to me, maybe TTB? The kit in BTW exchanges are usually named MSEs and I'm fairly sure there are MSEs in Intake.

Similar applies either way - you don't get onto the Zen network until you reach an NNI, London or Manchester, where the Zen LNS live.

[Alex Atkin UK]

In my case its definitely TTB yes, although the Zen portal no longer states my backhaul at all.

I'm still struggling to get my head around this "first PPP device in the chain" concept though.  How is it getting from Intake to this first device?  And if it IS hitting Doncaster for me (which would somewhat make sense to use TTB to reach the nearest Zen backhaul only), surely at that point it is fed down Zens own backhaul, though yes presumably to London as we see from the first (visible) hop.

That would kinda explain why its not going via Manchester, its heading in the wrong direction. 

[Reformed]

I'm still struggling to get my head around this "first PPP device in the chain" concept though.  How is it getting from Intake to this first device?

TalkTalk's VPLS network encapsulating the VLAN you arrive at TT's kit connected to your cabinet's OLT via.

And if it IS hitting Doncaster for me (which would somewhat make sense to use TTB to reach the nearest Zen backhaul only), surely at that point it is fed down Zens own backhaul, though yes presumably to London as we see from the first (visible) hop.

TTB and Zen don't connect at Doncaster. They connect in Manchester and London. Zen pay TTB for the NNI, a standard charge and per Mbps/month so it makes sense to have TalkTalk aggregate a bunch of customers together, which they do.

TTB have no external connectivity at Doncaster besides access circuits. Having tons of smaller NNIs all over the place would be an expensive nightmare.

Given Zen are paying TTB to deliver across a relatively few NNIs it makes sense to have TTB carry the traffic for as long as possible - they aren't charged less for shorter distances on the TTB network 

[Alex Atkin UK]

That still doesn't explain where nge001.don-re0 is in the network or why its named that way and why do I connect to that particular end point?  Is it purely random?

[j0hn]

That still doesn't explain where nge001.don-re0 is in the network or why its named that way and why do I connect to that particular end point?  Is it purely random?

It's Talktalks local interconnect to you.

Mines would be edi
AFAIK they have 4 in Scotland, gla, edi, dun and abe though they possibly have more.

Whatever the largest city/town near you beginning with don is then that's where the local interconnect is.

[jelv]

Any idea where acc-aln2.sfw is? I think my head exchange is Shaftesbury.

C:\Users\John>tracert 1.1.1.1

Tracing route to one.one.one.one [1.1.1.1]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     3 ms     7 ms     3 ms  fritz.box [192.168.1.1]
  2    15 ms    15 ms    14 ms  vt1.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.22]
  3    15 ms    14 ms    16 ms  lag-9.p2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.174]
  4    17 ms    14 ms    14 ms  lag-1.br2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.169]
  5     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  6    15 ms    15 ms    15 ms  141.101.71.2
  7    15 ms    14 ms    14 ms  one.one.one.one [1.1.1.1]

PS I've used the [pre]...[/pre] tags to format the above - button to the right of strikeout. Which do people prefer - this or code?

[francisuk1989]

Any idea where acc-aln2.sfw is? I think my head exchange is Shaftesbury.

C:\Users\John>tracert 1.1.1.1#

Definitely a BT Wholesale as i remember been on BT itself with the acc- part however it isnt always true as when i first joined Zen, My Zen account said i was connected via BTw and always had been PoP nge001.col-re0

I know that sf is Sheffield, mr would be Manchester.

[burakkucat]

PS I've used the [pre]...[/pre] tags to format the above - button to the right of strikeout. Which do people prefer - this or code?

The above is in a rather small font size for my liking.