Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[HPsauce]

I guess such "tricks" have been forgotten as modern phones that don't generally need a bell wire signal have been around longer than broadband!
And really old-school phones often used to need a bit of internal wiring or jumpers moving to work on DIY extension systems with a modern master socket.

I recall that I once had a "modern" cordless phone that was a specific BT-supplied and branded one that actually needed it.
Given that this was far from the first cordless phone I'd had the fact that it didn't ring confused me at first, it was in the relatively early days of broadband but I already knew about the bell wire issues and it was on a 2-wire filtered extension.

It worked at the master and other types of otherwise similar phone worked on the extension.
In the end I worked out that whoever in BT had specified the damned thing had been too precise, and the manufacturers had blindly followed the spec exactly, so it ONLY rang if the bell wire told it too! 

[Edinburgh_lad]

Thanks for all responses.

Before I did the extension, I checked the guides on how to wire it. They did mention that the bell wire wasn't needed and that the 'ring' would come from one of the two wires. However, when I tried that, it didn't work. There was the dial tone, but the phone didn't ring until I actually connected the bell wire.

So, I ended up connecting the bell wire to the filtered plate of the extension socket.

I'm not sure there would be a difference between the ADSLNation filtered socket and a rat-like filter connected to an ordinary socket. In fact, I prefer the former as it looks neater than something dangling and being potentially exposed to kicks and movement.

[HPsauce]

It's adjacent to your phone you place the rat-tail filter. Just unplug the lead, plug the filter into the socket then the phone lead into the BT socket on the filter.

What is the phone lead plugged/connected to currently?

Remember, you're familiar with all your wiring, sockets and equipment, we're not. 

[Edinburgh_lad]

Thanks.

Here's a picture of how it's done (hope it's done ok!)

[tubaman]

Do you mean that the extension wires from the master socket (2 x unfiltered plus bell wire) are attached to the back of the ADSL Nation faceplate, as to me that seems wrong as the connections on the back of the faceplate are outputs and not inputs?
You should be connecting just the A and B unfiltered connections from the master socket to the A and B connections in the box the ADSL Nation faceplate connects into. Then you shouldn't need the bell wire at all as the faceplate will have its own.
Even doing this is not perfect as you have two master sockets in effect, but I think is better than what I believe you have at present.

[Edinburgh_lad]

Do you mean that the extension wires from the master socket (2 x unfiltered plus bell wire) are attached to the back of the ADSL Nation faceplate, as to me that seems wrong as the connections on the back of the faceplate are outputs and not inputs?
You should be connecting just the A and B unfiltered connections from the master socket to the A and B connections in the box the ADSL Nation faceplate connects into. Then you shouldn't need the bell wire at all as the faceplate will have its own.
Even doing this is not perfect as you have two master sockets in effect, but I think is better than what I believe you have at present.

Sorry, I was wrong. I now took the cover off and the wires were attached as you said they should be (I did the socket some time ago, so couldn't remember well). So, they do go back to the socket of the ADSLNation filter but the bell wire comes to the faceplate.

If I remove the bell wire from either the master socket or the ADSLNation faceplate, the phone doesn't ring anyway.

[Moderator edited to remove the white space from the attachment.]

[HPsauce]

I'd go back to basics and wire it all "correctly/optimally" with just 2 wires, after all that's what comes into your property.
Then use a filter (rat-tail or faceplate) at the very last point where your phone is plugged in (alongside the router?).

I believe almost all filters generate a bell signal, but your ADSLnation faceplate may not have been designed to or some components may have failed.

You ideally should run an unfiltered 2-wire cable from the master socket (it has terminals for that) to your extension point.
There you should have either a simple passive BT socket with plug-in filter or a filtered faceplate.
With that your broadband will be optimum (though not as good as with the router at the master socket) and your old phone should work and ring.

If the phone doesn't ring the add a plug-in filter and see if it works then. If it does and you want it neater, replace the filtered faceplate.

I'm also confused by the ADSL nation faceplate in your pictures, that's not an extension filtered faceplate, it looks like one to fit a master socket XTE-2005? 
Do you have two master sockets in series, one where the line comes in and one where the phone/router are? 

You should have something that looks like this at the end of the extension:

[Edinburgh_lad]

Thanks for your response @HPsauce

> You ideally should run an unfiltered 2-wire cable from the master socket (it has terminals for that) to your extension point.

Is that the unfiltered terminals on the master socket, as in my picture above?

> I'm also confused by the ADSL nation faceplate in your pictures, that's not an extension filtered faceplate, it looks like one to fit a master socket.
> Do you have two master sockets in series, one where the line comes in and one where the phone/router are? 

Initially I had an extension ADSLNation socket like the one in your post, but I believed it was faulty (it wasn't, but I threw it out) and so I needed something that would replace it. You can no longer buy them though. 

Since I had a good performance from ADSLnation filter, I simply installed a new one (XTE2005). I can't use a plug-in filter because the cat will play with it, despite me trying to put the cat's basket and a special wee table nearby the socket to make it inaccessible by the cat - he has now learnt to move the basket (God knows how), but thankfully not learnt to move an empty shoe box from under the wee table (yet)

[HPsauce]

Now I'm even more confused: 
1. What/where is the picture of the back of a faceplate with a single wire? Is anything disconnected?
2. At your extension what is the XTE-2005 plugged in to? How does the signal/wiring reach it?

[tubaman]

Definitely something odd going on as the old phone should ring from that faceplate without needing the bell wire run separately.

[Edinburgh_lad]

Now I'm even more confused: 
1. What/where is the picture of the back of a faceplate with a single wire? Is anything disconnected?
2. At your extension what is the XTE-2005 plugged in to? How does the signal/wiring reach it?

1. That's the ADSLNation socket/faceplate (= extension socket). Two wires from the master socket go into the back of this XTE socket, except for the bell wire, which goes into its faceplate.
2. The extension socket is the XTE-2005, which is part of a simple socket, to which the two wires are connected.

So:

Master socket 5C -------- > extension socket consisting of an ordinary socket with XTE plate on it

a) Master socket 5C has two wires connected to A and B on it (left hand side, clear clamps) to provide feed to the extension socket, plus the bell wire connected to the removable 5C faceplate to provide the bell signal to the extension socket

b) Extension socket is just an ordinary socket with XTE plate attached to it.  The wires from 5C feed into the back of this socket. The bell wire from 5C feeds into the XTE faceplate.

c) GPO phone and broadband are connected to the XTE plate.

Effectively, the bell wire is the only wire that is connected to both 5C's and XTE's faceplates.

[HPsauce]

b) Extension socket is just an ordinary socket with XTE plate attached to it.

No such thing, WHAT is it?
An extension socket is just a mounting backplate fixed to the wall that the faceplate screws to. The wires are fixed DIRECTLY to the FACEPLATE.

An XTE plate won't even fit an extension backplate, they're different sizes. It's designed to PLUG INTO a master socket.

You have something non-standard, but what? 

[Edinburgh_lad]

I think it's called NTE5 socket. It looks like this:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GPNTE5.html

[Moderator edited to simplify the above URL.]

[licquorice]

I have no idea why you are making this so complicated. Just connect the unfiltered pair from the master socket to a slave socket and plug in a rat's tail. Job done.

[tubaman]

I have no idea why you are making this so complicated. Just connect the unfiltered pair from the master socket to a slave socket and plug in a rat's tail. Job done.

Reply#22 says "I can't use a plug-in filter because the cat will play with it...", so it's not an option.
It should work as is without the extra bell wire, but for some reason it doesn't.

I assume the polarity of the A and B wires is the same between the master and extension, as that will certainly muck things up on a normal three wire system?