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[chakobsa]

I've been following the role out in Bognor Regis with keen interest as Openreach have been active in the area for the last 9 months.

They now look to have completed the estate I live on which is mostly drop lines with only a small amount of feeds to properties using underground. Probably only 10% have underground.

Using the Openreach checker most of the postcodes with drop pole lines are now activated for FTTP but postcodes like mine which have underground lines are not. I don't think my line is in any conduit either but rather just buried in the soil when the estate was built.. (estate from the 60's!)

Is anyone aware of Openreach delaying the areas with a small amount of underground feeds and just concentrating on the drop lines? I'm just worried they will leave us out. The road next to me which has drop poles is now activated.

[Black Sheep]

Hi - if I'm reading this correctly, you are saying your premises are fed via a 'Direct-in-Ground' armoured cable, or DiG as we simplify it to ??

Alas, these types of localities are cash-hungry FTTP builds due to the sheer amount of work involved in overlaying the existing DiG, with new duct/tees/toby boxes.

When an Exchange are 'goes live' to be built, OR will survey each locality (or PON area) up to a normal capacity of 120 houses. Ergo, each individual PON is designed to feed up to 120 homes maximum (grey areas do crop up now and again).
 
OR's remit is to provide the new FTTP infrastructure working on a maximum cost per PON. Anything above that figure initially gets 'high-costed' out of the build programme, until approximately 50-60% of the whole of the Exchange PON's have been built. At this point, the build manager can scrutinise the figures and work out if the build programme to date is running at a low cost or not ?. If it is low, then money saved on other PON's can be utilised on the more costlier PON's such as yours.

If your PON is too costly, it would then be picked up by another follow-on build programme to the current Area 3 FTTP roll-out, (cunningly called Area 4 FTTP roll-out). The small saving grace in this instance, is that the survey stage will have already been completed and fibre capacity left at the splitter also fully connected through to the Head End. So a chunk of the work will already have been done, leaving just the civils.

I mention this from time-to-time  , but you are a lot further forward in the FTTP stakes than a lot of others, myself included. My area doesn't even factor into any FTTP plans this side of 2026. 

[chakobsa]

Thank you for the info.

There are openreach man hole covers near the properties that have underground connections but not outside each property.

I actually have a small openreach man hole cover in my front garden (about 2 feet from my front door) which feeds my property and 2 other neighbours. The reason why I said it was buried just in the mud is because I almost dug it up while putting in a post. It was about 2 1/2 ft deep. I did not see any ducting just a loose black cable about 1/4" thick.

Openreach have put in new posts and cables everywhere for the estate which uses overhead feeds but no activity for the underground fed roads.

Will just carry on waiting like many others!

[Black Sheep]

Thank you for the info.

There are openreach man hole covers near the properties that have underground connections but not outside each property.

I actually have a small openreach man hole cover in my front garden (about 2 feet from my front door) which feeds my property and 2 other neighbours. The reason why I said it was buried just in the mud is because I almost dug it up while putting in a post. It was about 2 1/2 ft deep. I did not see any ducting just a loose black cable about 1/4" thick.

Openreach have put in new posts and cables everywhere for the estate which uses overhead feeds but no activity for the underground fed roads.

Will just carry on waiting like many others!

Yeah they will have, as like I've alluded to earlier - the synthetic costs for cabling to a pole that feeds numerous customers overhead, is far, far, far cheaper than trenching and sinking boxes/swept tees, to each individual house that is fed via DiG cables.

Again, as mooted previously, this does NOT mean you will never ever see FTTP,  it's just that this current subsidised programme cannot support your PON build financially. Dem's da rules, I'm afraid.

[chakobsa]

For interest a couple of pictures of the cables under the OR cover by my front door. Take it these must be armoured cables?

[Black Sheep]

Unable to say for certain, but they 'appear' to be just bog-standard PETC cables, ie:no steel-wire armouring protecting them ??
That said, I can only go off the colour of the cable, as the steel wire is under the outer sheathing - but in all the years I've been an engineer oop North, these cables are always grey in colour. May be different darn sarf' ??

The other thing to note too is, that joint box structure looks to be a JB23. These are relatively new boxes in the big scheme of things, so potentially there could have been a service-affecting fault at the point where this box is located, and the armoured cables have had to be lengthened to get each individual feed cable inside the box and into the new joint. We would use PETC cable to perform this lengthening process.

All guess work - but if you PM me your details I could have a look on our network records to try and clarify further. Entirely up to you.

[gt94sss2]

If your PON is too costly, it would then be picked up by another follow-on build programme to the current Area 3 FTTP roll-out, (cunningly called Area 4 FTTP roll-out). The small saving grace in this instance, is that the survey stage will have already been completed and fibre capacity left at the splitter also fully connected through to the Head End. So a chunk of the work will already have been done, leaving just the civils.

BS,

Am not in Bognor Regis but could you explain the references to Area 3/4 FTTP roll-out etc.

Also, I know FTTP timings are a bit like how long is a piece of string but are you able to layout the different stages in an OR FTTP exchange rollout? For instance, I think they start with a walking survey which leads to a business case that needs to be approved etc..

[Black Sheep]

Hi

It's easier to provide a link and a cut & paste - https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/03/ofcom-unveils-2021-changes-to-boost-uk-full-fibre-broadband.html

Area 4 will be a continuation of Area 3 but with greater subsidy.



Area 1 – Competitive Areas

Areas, such as dense urban locations where there are at least 2 existing networks + BT (OR), will not see much regulation of Openreach’s products (i.e. rules will be removed to encourage investment and innovation). Oddly Ofcom still hasn’t identified any such areas at this stage but they do “expect to do so in the future.”

Area 2 – Potentially Competitive Areas

Areas, such as locations where 1 or more existing alternative ultrafast networks are already present or where 1 or more operators have a plan to deploy (and Ofcom considers the future rollout could be economic), will continue to see Openreach being required to provide wholesale access to its network. This reflects about 70% of the UK.

Ofcom will also maintain flat, inflation-adjusted, regulated prices for Openreach’s entry-level 40Mbps (10Mbps upload) superfast broadband service. Ofcom also accepts that the FTTP version of this will be a little bit more expensive (£1.70 per month) than the equivalent FTTC one due to the higher speeds and quality from full fibre lines.

But Ofcom won’t regulate the prices of Openreach’s higher-speed services and will place restrictions on discounts (more on this later).

Area 3 – Non-Competitive Areas

Areas, such as rural locations where Openreach is the only operator providing a large-scale network (i.e. no rivals or plans by rivals) – reflecting about 30% of the UK, will see regulation designed to support investment by allowing OR to recover its costs to build a new fibre network from a wider range of services (similar to a “regulated asset base” model approach), such as copper line services, which could reduce the risk of its investment.

“If Openreach provides a firm commitment to lay fibre in these parts of the country, we can include the cost of this deployment in its prices from the outset. If not, its prices would only increase after fibre has been built.” BT has since added a commercial commitment to build FTTP to 3.2 million rural UK premises and Ofcom has thus carried this change forward (here).

[Black Sheep]

Also, I know FTTP timings are a bit like how long is a piece of string but are you able to layout the different stages in an OR FTTP exchange rollout? For instance, I think they start with a walking survey which leads to a business case that needs to be approved etc..

Whoops, missed this bit.

TBH, I've posted the timelines a dozen or so times before on various posts, but the bog-standard general format once an Exchange area has been sanctioned to be built is .... and this is per PON (max 120 premises, or THP as it is more commonly referred as) ......

Week 1 ... manual on-site survey
Weeks 2-3 ... the Planning team build all required civils, poling, de-silt, gully suck, tree cutting etc etc estimates, and create the final job-pack.
Weeks 4-8 ... the worst bit of the build, the 'unknown'. This is a 5 week period in which all civils tasks are expected to be completed 
Week 9 ... cabling
Week 10 ... splicing, testing and commissioning.

I would refer the readership back to 'Weeks 4-8' ... until you actually start work on civil engineering (break ground), you are only as good as the prints/docs provided via 'safe-digs'/ 'LSBUD', reality can be a whole different ball-game which is why it is such an unknown measure regarding timesclaes.

[chakobsa]

Also, I know FTTP timings are a bit like how long is a piece of string but are you able to layout the different stages in an OR FTTP exchange rollout? For instance, I think they start with a walking survey which leads to a business case that needs to be approved etc..

From the 1st sight of planning notices on the roads for new posts to be erected to a live FTTP service on my estate to some of the properties has been about 6 months or more and these are only overhead services.

[burakkucat]

. . . a live FTTC service on my estate to some of the properties . . .

Do you really mean FTTC? Or did the fingers ignore the brain and you actually intended to type FTTP?

[Black Sheep]

Do you really mean FTTC? Or did the fingers ignore the brain and you actually intended to type FTTP?

Having been part of a PM chain between myself and chakobsa, he does indeed mean FTTP, Mr Cat.

As I've gone to pains to mention, civils is always an unknown in any part of the country but in particular some highways authorities are notoriously worse than others.

That said, 6 months must be some kind of record for new poles to be erected - we're usually looking at 2-3 weeks tops !! D-Poles on the other hand can take years to change under Asset Assurance's change-out programme, unless live faults develop, new circuit required by an EU ... or if they fall under a new PON project. But even then it takes longer than new poling.

[chakobsa]

Yes sorry FTTP Brain not working...

It really has taken that long for new posts to be erected.

Watching on one.network you could see the OR applications dates just go by with no work carried out and the following week new dates would appear for the same work.
OR seemed to install fibre on existing posts first and then in the last month most of the new posts appeared.

[Black Sheep]

Yes sorry FTTP Brain not working...

It really has taken that long for new posts to be erected.

Watching on one.network you could see the OR applications dates just go by with no work carried out and the following week new dates would appear for the same work.
OR seemed to install fibre on existing posts first and then in the last month most of the new posts appeared.

FI - most FTTP builds are contractor driven, but there are a small percentage that are OR direct labour built. The applications you will see are 'on behalf' of OR, but for the most part the request will be from the T1 contractor.

That is why OR maintain regular communication with their T1 contractors, to ensure the ECD (Estimated Completion Dates) are maintained. There is no way on God's green Earth that OR would allow a bog-standard, without complications standing of a couple of new poles, drag on for 6 months. No way, not ever. 

[gt94sss2]

the bog-standard general format once an Exchange area has been sanctioned to be built is .... and this is per PON (max 120 premises, or THP as it is more commonly referred as) ......

Week 1 ... manual on-site survey
Weeks 2-3 ... the Planning team build all required civils, poling, de-silt, gully suck, tree cutting etc etc estimates, and create the final job-pack.
Weeks 4-8 ... the worst bit of the build, the 'unknown'. This is a 5 week period in which all civils tasks are expected to be completed 
Week 9 ... cabling
Week 10 ... splicing, testing and commissioning.

Many thanks for your responses.

Will be interesting what happens here locally - by brother saw OR marking up the pavements on his street here on 30 November (which I assume is Stage 1/Week 1) though the person he asked said 6 months..