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[craigski]

I have just placed a new order for FTTP install, not a migration of existing FTTC.
Existing FTTC service is via OH cable from telegraph pole to chimney stack.
Openreach installed new duct for FTTP, with blue draw ropes, I assume because of issue going to chimney stack?
BT wholesale checker says "KCI2 Assure, UG Pre built to curtilage Hard"

So, assuming the FTTP service uses the new duct, if I cancel the FTTC service, would Openreach want to remove the overhead copper lines, what would be the best process to arrange this?

TIA!

[j0hn]

They wouldn't normally plan on removing it. It's left in situ.

You could ask them to remove it but the outcome of that would depend on the engineer who visits.

[Black Sheep]

They will definitely use the new duct to provide service.

If it were a like-for-like swop (copper to hybrid FTTP) going overhead, then they would recover the old copper cable, but as j0hn states, it will probably remain in-situ for the time being as the engineer has no need to climb the pole to provide FTTP to you.

Not knowing the geography of your premises, there may be more to removal than meets they eye ??. Engineers use a 'Tetra climbing system' (Google it), and if the criteria can't be met to ensure its use then other options will have to be sought .... such as using the cherry-picker or a scaffolding tower (sufficient access area, dependent with both).

If that fails, I've recently had eyes on a trial going on in OR using mechanical cutters for this sort of thing. Never seen them, but I believe they're a heavy piece of kit therefore requiring two men to use them .... once the cutting head is in place the 2nd man then uses bluetooth to operate the cutters. As I say, these are currently in trial and if you don't live in the trial area (wherever that is ?), it won't be an option.

Hopefully I've covered all scenario's ??.

[craigski]

Thanks Guys.

There is a duct with fibre from street to pole on neighbours land, I assume this is live, as I have been able to order.

There is an empty duct from pole, under shared drive/track, to outside my property.

So I assume they will have to go up pole via cherry picker to connect my fibre, then back down pole, through duct to my property.

I wasn't sure if there was process in place to remove any copper, especially if going to chimney stack, as previously some engineers would not work on it as its a chimney.

I guess some times the process is dependent on the engineer.

[Black Sheep]

Is the FTTP CBT (Block ) attached to the pole ?? Have they not placed it in an underground chamber ??

Without piccies it's hard to determine, but there's no reason the engineer couldn't climb the pole without a cherry-picker if all safety criteria is met ?? I mentioned the cherry-picker in terms of at your house end previously, not at the pole.

[craigski]

CBT is at top of pole. When the OR planners we surveying I explained the issue I had previously about the existing copper going to chimney on my bungalow, and some previous engineers advised they couldn't install new service to chimney due to safety. The existing copper does not go across a public road, but does go across a private track/drive that sometimes has large vehicles passing, so I understand the safety reasons, but I think its interpreted differently by individuals.

So the FTTP planners decided as the civils would be onsite laying a duct from chamber to pole (existing copper was not in duct) for FTTP, they could also dig for a duct to my property from pole. They did say my fibre would still go up pole to CBT.

Ideally once the FTTP is installed and operational, I would like the overhead copper removed if at all possible. I didn't know if there was an internal process within OR, would OR want as much copper removed as possible to people cant order new copper services?

[Black Sheep]

I see - that's making more sense to me now.

Again, not having full sight of the area/layout of the land, it's impossible to give a definite answer ... and as you allude to, the site risk-assessment is absolutely the individuals choice. There are guidelines, rules etc ... but if the man-on-site says he doesn't feel safe performing the work then he can't be made to. Lots of dead hero's in the graveyard that have helped in getting us to where we are today 

Anyhow's, the other alternative is you ask the engineer to cut the copper cable whilst he's up the pole and leave it coiled up at your house-end for somebody else to remove, if it's impossible to get safe access from our guys ??

[jelv]

I don't think that's an option.

I have just placed a new order for FTTP install, not a migration of existing FTTC.

I presume that means that for a time both services will be active.

I guess that if the FTTC is subsequently terminated and he later spots an engineer up the pole for some other reason he could ask for it to be cut then.

[craigski]

Thank you both, I was thinking same. Copper services will still be live, but I will cancel as soon at FTTP is live. I expect neighbour will also order FTTP at some point, so if copper services are dead to my property I could ask the engineer nicely to cut my cable?

Legally if there are not live copper services to my property and the cable is cut and coiled up on my property, am I now the 'owner' of all the cables and junction boxes on my property, so I can safely remove all equipment from my property? There are 2 or 3 outside junction boxes (with lots of spiders  ) on my walls and chimney for copper cables.

[Black Sheep]

Not certain of the legalities 100% - but take it from me, if you wish to remove unsightly JB's and redundant cable from both inside and outside your premises, then there would be no comeback whatsoever.

All that would have happened in the past was if the customer wanted to have the service reinstated (ie: new houseowner, moving back from VM etc .... ), then there were two outcomes the engineer would have to put down in his closure notes - 'wiring already in-situ', or 'new wiring provided' ... one would attract more cost to the ISP than the other, which in turn would sometimes get passed down to the EU.

But .... we're in a different world now with FTTP.

[craigski]

Just in terms of getting the cable cut, is there some kind of process where a non urgent maintenance type 'job' can be logged to a pole, ie I can officially request the cable is cut, and next time an OR is up pole he will cut as will be logged/attached to his job, I don't want to create an extra job/cost/expense to OR or me if I can help it.

Or is it just a case of informally requesting it next time I see an engineer working up the pole and hoping they will oblige?

[Black Sheep]

Alas, the type of job you are talking about would fall under 'Cable recovery' and would attract a cost.

You can of course ask a random engineer if you see one up the pole, but if it were me I'd refuse the request due to leaving myself open to potential consequences should anything untoward happen performing the deed. I can not stress enough just how harsh the disciplinary process is on Service Delivery - they are literally waiting to pounce on you for the slightest, and I mean slightest, issue !!

[craigski]

OK, "they are literally waiting to pounce on you for the slightest, and I mean slightest, issue", can I use this to my advantage?

What about I suggest to OR the existing cable as a safety issue as its running across as private drive/track with large vehicles/farm machinery/tractors passing (not very often, but true) and attached to a chimney, and should be removed as not in service.  If I have reported it as a safety issue, they would have to action in some way, either say its safe or remove it, hopefully the later?

[jelv]

It would be a shame if an accident occurred and one of those farm vehicles broke it in the middle. 

All you could do is coil up the two ends and leave them hanging safely. At the next visit a sensible engineer would remove it from the pole as it was obviously not in use.

[Black Sheep]

OK, "they are literally waiting to pounce on you for the slightest, and I mean slightest, issue", can I use this to my advantage?

What about I suggest to OR the existing cable as a safety issue as its running across as private drive/track with large vehicles/farm machinery/tractors passing (not very often, but true) and attached to a chimney, and should be removed as not in service.  If I have reported it as a safety issue, they would have to action in some way, either say its safe or remove it, hopefully the later?

If you report something as a safety issue it gets pushed right to the very top of the pile and dependent upon the situation, will attract a response time usually within 2hrs maximum.

Upon turning up, they would probably just look at the wire that has been in place for years and deduct it is not a safety issue, and bugger off .... as would I  .

Is this not being over 'thunk' ?? If you have FTTP installed and working on the appointment date, even though FTTC would still be running in parallel until you terminated the contract, would it not be beneficial to just have the bl00dy thing cut down whilst there's an engineer on site, to avoid all this if's, but's and maybe's ??