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Author Topic: PC problem  (Read 954 times)

grahamb

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PC problem
« on: December 01, 2021, 02:18:45 PM »

Ok folks, buckle up, this one's a doozy...

First, some background: I upgraded to W11 about 6 weeks ago; however since then, I've found that basic vga drivers won't load (1 long beep, 3 short beeps) which means I can't see to enter the BIOS when the pc boots. The pc does show my sign in screen a few seconds after, so I can sign in to Windows.

So, this morning, I've installed a new m.2 nvme drive in my pc (btw, I had to take out the graphics card to do this). I do that, switch on the pc, hear the beeps as usual and the sign in screen shows soon after. "Hmm," I think to myself, "if I can't see the BIOS, I can't set the new drive to the correct gen. I wonder if booting to safe mode will help."
So, I try to do this through settings but, when the pc restarts, I can't see anything. Windows does it's countdown thing (I presume), and reboots back to normal mode, where I can sign in again. Then I think - wait for it - "What if I boot into safe mode from msconfig?" *selects safe mode, clicks apply, ok, restarts...

And now, as basic VGA drivers won't load, I can't see anything. I've manually turned off the power to the pc, waited a few seconds and rebooted a few times but it must still be trying to boot to safe mode. I can't even boot from my original W10 disk through my optical drive as I can't change the boot order of the drives.

Anyway, I'm stuck for ideas now and on the verge of tearing out what little hair I have left. Anyone got any practical suggestions?
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grahamb

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2021, 03:39:45 PM »

Abject panic now over. The MS vga drivers must have taken a hike for some reason. I put an old graphics card that I had in the pc, booted up and the OS started complaining about not supporting it and reloaded the basic vga drivers, which allowed me to enter the BIOS to do the adjustments that I wanted to do and undo the safe mode boot. The new gpu is now back in and has booted to show the BIOS splash screen and now all appears well.

Phew...
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burakkucat

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2021, 05:17:42 PM »

I'm glad to know you have resolved the problem.  :)
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2021, 06:05:59 AM »

That's really weird, as the VGA drivers would play no part in getting into UEFI.  Does the original card work now or still broken?
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tubaman

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2021, 07:49:24 AM »

That's really weird, as the VGA drivers would play no part in getting into UEFI.  ...

I was thinking just the same thing as the UEFI display is independent of the OS drivers.  ???
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 09:40:16 AM by tubaman »
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grahamb

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2021, 03:43:22 PM »

THe original card is fine, it was never broken in the first place. The problems with not being able to see the BIOS splash page started after the W11 upgrade. I'd start the PC, it'd go through POST (as described in my OP) but wouldn't display anything until it got to the Windows sign-in screen. Once I'd signed in, the AMD Bug Report tool would tell me that there had been a driver time-out and asked me if I wanted to send a report. Since I had no idea what was happening, and Googling didn't help (of course, I may not have asked the right question), I decided to ignore it. Then the stupid part of my brain took over...

It's only because I sorted it with the old graphics card that's made me think the basic vga driver had gone walkies in the first place.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2021, 04:28:29 PM »

I wonder if 11 somehow switched to UEFI GPU mode(UEFI boot is supposedly mandatory for 11 so this would kinda make sense) and using the older card somehow forced it to switch back to legacy VESA support?

I never noticed when UEFI became a thing with GPUs so not sure if they HAVE to support it for UEFI boot to work, or if you can UEFI boot with legacy GPU support.
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grahamb

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2021, 07:17:53 PM »

It just seems to me that basic vga drivers load first to enable the BIOS splash screen to be displayed then the gpu drivers (and everything else) load once the Windows splash screen is displayed. Doesn't booting into safe mode load only the necessary drivers? Windows certainly doesn't display at its highest resolution then.

Actually, comparing services in task manager in either mode may shed some light?  :hmm:
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Ronski

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2021, 08:05:39 PM »

You should not require any drivers to load to display the BIOS - its all built into the BIOS, you should be able to access the BIOS/UEFI even without a hard drive installed.

Does the motherboard by any chance have onboard graphics?

Or is the GPU in a different slot perhaps to what the UEFI is expecting?

The other possibility is that Windows turned on some sort of fast boot, in which case you may well not see any of the usual boot screens, then Windows tries to load its display driver, which had perhaps been corrupted.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2021, 08:17:58 PM »

It just seems to me that basic vga drivers load first to enable the BIOS splash screen to be displayed then the gpu drivers (and everything else) load once the Windows splash screen is displayed. Doesn't booting into safe mode load only the necessary drivers? Windows certainly doesn't display at its highest resolution then.

Actually, comparing services in task manager in either mode may shed some light?  :hmm:

Like I said, the boot graphics are handled by the BIOS/UEFI, some UEFI even let you choose if you want it to use a HD resolution or not during boot.  You used to see the screen flicker when the Windows drivers start up but I believe they are delayed right until the end now, just before the login screen appears.

Usually if the screen is blank during bootup its because it thinks a different output is the primary monitor, then when Windows takes over it will switch to whichever output you were using last, if a monitor is plugged into it.
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grahamb

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2021, 08:38:12 AM »

Tbh, I'm just guessing at reasons as to why it didn't work and now it does, after doing what I did. The reason why I posted here in the first place is that there's always someone more knowledgeable than yourself that can help you out.  :)

I'm going to put it down to Windows Update - we can always blame Microsoft, can't we?   ;)
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2021, 09:15:32 AM »

Since getting the MacMini and Macbook I've pretty much switched to a default of "FFS APPLE" as my goodness they seem to go out of their way to do things as different as possible from everyone else.

My favourite being that every single time there is a MacOS update, it boots to a black screen afterwards.  Even Linux isn't that bad, other than a worst case scenario you'll at least get a text console, and usually it actually works fine.  Also updates seem to take longer to apply that Windows or Linux.
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grahamb

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2021, 02:00:15 PM »

In the case of Apple products, I have more sense than money...
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: PC problem
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2021, 12:07:22 PM »

I have no regrets getting the MacBook though, the M1 Pro is a stunning SoC plus the screen and sound quality are second to none.  Its kinda baffling, you can't get a monitor close to as good as the new MacBook one for less than the top-end model MacBook costs.  If you factor that into the price, they're actually insanely good value for once.

Also makes me laugh how some people moan about the notch for the camera.  What Apple did there is really clever, they increased the height of the screen so the menu is outside the normal screen area.  So compared to older models when you maximise an application it uses the full screen with the notched area being extra space.  The only real issue is the OS/applications not always being clever enough to realise the notched area is invisible so things can spill into there, but mostly its not an issue.

One weird quirk I can't understand though is putting any video application into full screen, including the web browser, doesn't use the full width of the screen whereas a maxmised application does.  Really bizarre.
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