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Author Topic: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions  (Read 4384 times)

snadge

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2021, 02:31:05 PM »

You get a lot of options with a Draytec! 2927 series is worth a look. The VPN capabilities are really good.
thanks and Alex Atkins UK for your suggestions, mulling them over and googling when i find time

thanks again
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2021, 03:38:25 PM »

It seemed clear at the time, they were basically winding down the whole "be a part of FON on any ISP" scheme.  I can't even find mention of the Fonera on their site any more.
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snadge

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2021, 11:17:49 AM »

well, something has happened with my connection and I'm getting only about 60% of the bandwidth (its congestion according to TBB metrics at 2.5-3.5) which is quoted as poor and worse than using wi-fi

the first few days it was fine 700-900Mbps, but could average about 850Mbps with low 10ms pings - now I'm getting 600-700Mbps (extremely rare its higher than that) with 20-30ms pings across all speed tests and servers.

I've seen loads of FTTP tests on speedtest.net with 5ms pings and 900Mbps on the head which is expected with full-fibre - at least 850Mbps if 900 is the cap? (yet router says 1000Mbps lol)

any advice from anyone>?
thanks in advance
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j0hn

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2021, 12:30:50 PM »

I've seen loads of FTTP tests on speedtest.net with 5ms pings

Your latency is related to where in the country you are  The further from London, the higher the base latency.
I can't get 5ms on my FTTP without breaking the law of physics.
Ignore the latency you see others getting.

Some BT FTTP customers will get 940Mb/s 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Others top out around 890Mb/s and have never seen above 900Mb/s.
That's down to differences in OLT/L2S config.

Quote
900Mbps on the head which is expected with full-fibre

That isn't too be expected. You asked that very question before ordering and were told what to expect.
It's a residential service with a guarantee of 450Mb/s.

Quote
at least 850Mbps if 900 is the cap? (yet router says 1000Mbps lol)

The cap is 1000Mb/s.
Overheads mean the theoretical maximum you should see is around 942Mb/s.
As I mentioned above some Openreach/BT Wholesale config can limit this to around 890Mb/s for some customers.
The router reports the link speed between the ONT and routers gigabit Ethernet ports.

To be accurate you need to run a speed test from your BT account with the Smart Hub 2 connected. This tests the speed to the Hub alone, ruling out all of your hardware.
If that reports higher than you are seeing them you have a hardware/config issue.
BT won't entertain any complaints about speeds above 450Mb/s anyway.
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snadge

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2021, 02:24:20 PM »

Your latency is related to where in the country you are  The further from London, the higher the base latency.
I can't get 5ms on my FTTP without breaking the law of physics.
Ignore the latency you see others getting.

Some BT FTTP customers will get 940Mb/s 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Others top out around 890Mb/s and have never seen above 900Mb/s.
That's down to differences in OLT/L2S config.

That isn't too be expected. You asked that very question before ordering and were told what to expect.
It's a residential service with a guarantee of 450Mb/s.

The cap is 1000Mb/s.
Overheads mean the theoretical maximum you should see is around 942Mb/s.
As I mentioned above some Openreach/BT Wholesale config can limit this to around 890Mb/s for some customers.
The router reports the link speed between the ONT and routers gigabit Ethernet ports.

To be accurate you need to run a speed test from your BT account with the Smart Hub 2 connected. This tests the speed to the Hub alone, ruling out all of your hardware.
If that reports higher than you are seeing them you have a hardware/config issue.
BT won't entertain any complaints about speeds above 450Mb/s anyway.

thanks for your input J0hn,

but what I'm also worried about is the Metric Score from TBB, which was 2.5-3.5 which states "is worse than using Wi-Fi, and indicative of congestion". and the fact ALL my TBB and Speedtests.net always top out at 600-700 shows this may be the case, if BT wants to supply GIGABIT services then they should be doing so, not giving themselves enough bandwidth to handle it is a job half done IMO.

I mean MGALS of HALF of your entire bandwidth is a bit crap compared to VDSL where I got 64Mbps my MGALS was 51Mbps (around 12% less than my sync rate)- so VDSL had about 12% less (on my connection) as MGALS, but for FTTP its a whopping 50% ..a bit much, yes i knew and agreed, but everyone told me on the BT forum and other forums that BT's FTTP was great n getting full whack 24/7 - I thought this must be because its Full-Fibre, the only time delays are caused by NICs in microseconds. And was told they block nothing and they do... even when using D.o.H encrypted DNS to Cloudflare I get the 404...turn on a VPN and bobs yer uncle - Plusnet did not do this and I was told "no blocks, no limits etc" and that it would be just like Plusnet but with 900Mbps speed and low ping.

I notice you say some get 940Mbps 24/7, whilst others will get around 890-900Mbps... which is what I'm asking for... it's a gigabit service, so should be gigabit speeds IMO. As I said it was super fast (900 24/4) the first 4 days, now its 600-700 constantly...that's congestion, and if so it will only get worse. I still have my copper line too.

I also noticed that BT dropped their 600 and 300 packages to 500 and 150 at the same prices, surely a bandwidth choice!

will continue regular testing to see if it's getting slower or faster...

cheers
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j0hn

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2021, 02:57:02 PM »

Quote
I also noticed that BT dropped their 600 and 300 packages to 500 and 150 at the same prices, surely a bandwidth choice!

BT have never had a 600Mb package.
It's always been 550/75 but sold as 500Mb/s.

They removed the 300Mb package from sale.

Anyone who told you to expect full speed 24/7 is an idiot.
BT don't promise that for good reason.

If you want full speed gigabit 24/7 guaranteed then it will cost about 5-10 times what you pay right now.
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bogof

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2021, 03:33:05 PM »

I mean MGALS of HALF of your entire bandwidth is a bit crap compared to VDSL where I got 64Mbps my MGALS was 51Mbps (around 12% less than my sync rate)- so VDSL had about 12% less (on my connection) as MGALS, but for FTTP its a whopping 50% ..a bit much, yes i knew and agreed, but everyone told me on the BT forum and other forums that BT's FTTP was great n getting full whack 24/7 - I thought this must be because its Full-Fibre, the only time delays are caused by NICs in microseconds. And was told they block nothing and they do... even when using D.o.H encrypted DNS to Cloudflare I get the 404...turn on a VPN and bobs yer uncle - Plusnet did not do this and I was told "no blocks, no limits etc" and that it would be just like Plusnet but with 900Mbps speed and low ping.

I notice you say some get 940Mbps 24/7, whilst others will get around 890-900Mbps... which is what I'm asking for... it's a gigabit service, so should be gigabit speeds IMO. As I said it was super fast (900 24/4) the first 4 days, now its 600-700 constantly...that's congestion, and if so it will only get worse. I still have my copper line too.
Well, there's up to 30 properties sharing a single 2.5G link, so something has to give.  Personally I find it hard to grumble about even 450mbit/sec for consumer-level pricing...

...but you should check whether what you are seeing is somehow router or computer related, as I'd be betting on that before I was betting on congestion somewhere upstream.  You can do that by using a reasonable spec PC or laptop via a linux boot disc / USB stick, and connecting directly via gigabit ethernet to the ONT (you'll need to set up a direct PPPoE connection between the test machine and your ISP).

There's all kinds of software out there that plays loose and fast with barely documented Windows networking options that they shouldn't go near.  One example is Hamachi VPN, which was silently changing settings on my machines, making it impossible to hit anything like line speed.

Another device that can be useful for speed testing is the AppleTV4k - that can hit gigabit line rates using the OOKLA speed test application.

Good luck!
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meritez

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2021, 03:54:37 PM »

well, something has happened with my connection and I'm getting only about 60% of the bandwidth (its congestion according to TBB metrics at 2.5-3.5) which is quoted as poor and worse than using wi-fi

the first few days it was fine 700-900Mbps, but could average about 850Mbps with low 10ms pings - now I'm getting 600-700Mbps (extremely rare its higher than that) with 20-30ms pings across all speed tests and servers.

I've seen loads of FTTP tests on speedtest.net with 5ms pings and 900Mbps on the head which is expected with full-fibre - at least 850Mbps if 900 is the cap? (yet router says 1000Mbps lol)

any advice from anyone>?
thanks in advance

Remove the HH2, use a decent router.
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snadge

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2021, 04:07:52 PM »

Well, there's up to 30 properties sharing a single 2.5G link, so something has to give.  Personally I find it hard to grumble about even 450mbit/sec for consumer-level pricing...

...but you should check whether what you are seeing is somehow router or computer related, as I'd be betting on that before I was betting on congestion somewhere upstream.  You can do that by using a reasonable spec PC or laptop via a linux boot disc / USB stick, and connecting directly via gigabit ethernet to the ONT (you'll need to set up a direct PPPoE connection between the test machine and your ISP).

There's all kinds of software out there that plays loose and fast with barely documented Windows networking options that they shouldn't go near.  One example is Hamachi VPN, which was silently changing settings on my machines, making it impossible to hit anything like line speed.

Another device that can be useful for speed testing is the AppleTV4k - that can hit gigabit line rates using the OOKLA speed test application.

Good luck!

well, for one, I'm using the connection on a high-end 8-core / 16GB / SSD machine - direct 1Gbit Full-Duplex LAN (5ft) into the router which is in a 5ft cable to the PON, the connection doesn't work directly into the modem, so it must be bridged in some way to the HH2 - i have my TCP/IP Stack optimized for Gigabit speeds (PPPoE) with a 1492 MTU and other optimizations - just done this now, but the result are the same.

Well, there's up to 30 properties sharing a single 2.5G link, so something has to give.


Had I known THAT then I may have re-considered - selling 900Mbps to people when 30 all share 2500Mbps is ludicrous in my book, as customers are all obviously getting Gigabit for that reason (wanting to download in Gigabit speeds - that's why we pay for it). Should be 5-10Gbps per 30 IMO.

Thanks for the router advice Meritez - its something I'm looking into - but not rushing as i want the right device, I've yet to find out the specs of the HH2...so I am gunna take a look now, faster 5Ghz may be better as my TV only has a 100Mbps NIC and 4K stutters on high bandwidth moments, on Wi-Fi, it's fine as it gets between 100-288Mbps to the TV (on the crappy speed test you get on an LG B8 OLED) and it almost touching the TV - literally - as the BT Linesman installed it all behind my TV.

edit: my tests were done at 4AM too... so should have been dead quiet almost - but got those results, especially the buffer-bloat

thanks for all the input guys and gals - I really do appreciate you teaching me everything, so please don't think I don't :) - especially you J0hn hehe

cheers
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 04:12:09 PM by snadge »
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j0hn

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2021, 04:23:28 PM »



Well, there's up to 30 properties sharing a single 2.5G link, so something has to give.


Had I known THAT then I may have re-considered - selling 900Mbps to people when 30 all share 2500Mbps is ludicrous in my book, as customers are all obviously getting Gigabit for that reason (wanting to download in Gigabit speeds - that's why we pay for it).

That's how pretty much all broadband works. It's contended in lots of different places. It's deliberately designed that way.
If they designed it with 1:1 contention then the costs would be eye watering.

FTTC is the exact same. A fibre cabinet has nowhere near enough bandwidth for everyone on the cabinet to max out their connections at the same time. Fortunately that's not how broadband works. People use their connections in bursts.

Quote
i have my TCP/IP Stack optimized for Gigabit speeds (PPPoE) with a 1492 MTU and other optimizations - just done this now, but the result are the same.

I'd recommend setting any TCP/IP changes you have made in your OS back to their default config.
There's no need to change such settings on a modern OS.

Try running the BT Speed test that's located in your My Account.
It will test the speed to the Smart Hub 2. If the speed to the Hub is good then it's an issue with hardware in the property.

If the Hubs build in speed test is still well below 900Mb/s then you know it's an issue outside your control.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2021, 04:26:41 PM »

Had I known THAT then I may have re-considered - selling 900Mbps to people when 30 all share 2500Mbps is ludicrous in my book

It used to be a 50:1 contention ratio on ADSL, on FTTC the entire cabinet might only have a Gigabit backhaul, cable shares with the whole street, its literally the same for ALL consumer broadband connections and always has been.  If anything, its much better than it used to be.

The likelihood of your PON being fully subscribed, with everyone having the Gigabit service and maxing it out at the same time, is slim to none.  You're far more likely to be hitting contention elsewhere.

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bogof

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2021, 04:44:18 PM »

well, for one, I'm using the connection on a high-end 8-core / 16GB / SSD machine - direct 1Gbit Full-Duplex LAN (5ft) into the router which is in a 5ft cable to the PON, the connection doesn't work directly into the modem, so it must be bridged in some way to the HH2 - i have my TCP/IP Stack optimized for Gigabit speeds (PPPoE) with a 1492 MTU and other optimizations - just done this now, but the result are the same.

Well, there's up to 30 properties sharing a single 2.5G link, so something has to give.


Had I known THAT then I may have re-considered - selling 900Mbps to people when 30 all share 2500Mbps is ludicrous in my book, as customers are all obviously getting Gigabit for that reason (wanting to download in Gigabit speeds - that's why we pay for it). Should be 5-10Gbps per 30 IMO.
The reality is in all but the most exceptionally loaded scenarios you will get your guaranteed.  But there are other options if you need to guarantee gig speeds - you just won't like the price.

To connect directly you need to have a PPPoE client on the computer -  MacOS AND Linux both have them, not sure if Windows does.  The PPPoE client sets up the connection to your ISP, much like the router does.

The Linux boot disc is a very good way to work out what is going on as the network behaviour is pretty much spot on for wired.  As a first step I would use a PPPoE client on Linux direct cable to the box, and see how that fares.  If it doesn't get above the rates then perhaps you are unlucky and are on a heavily contended network, a duff ONT, or perhaps you have a marginal fibre issue, though I think the latter is unlikely to fail in that way.

If it looks like it achieves close to line rate, then you can plug the ONT back into the router and connect the Linux box back up to the router, this time using DHCP.  See how that does. 

Finally you can then compare those results to what you see on Windows.
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Chrysalis

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2021, 04:48:17 PM »

Snadge I think lower contention ratio's can be got away with as speeds get higher and higher as things download faster, you very unlikely to see 30 people using their line at full tilt at the same time, also consider most customers are not going to be on the full speed products.

Realistically if you see full speed off peak and maybe a few hundred megs on peak without packet loss and jitter, thats going to be good enough.
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snadge

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2021, 05:05:29 PM »

Snadge I think lower contention ratio's can be got away with as speeds get higher and higher as things download faster, you very unlikely to see 30 people using their line at full tilt at the same time, also consider most customers are not going to be on the full speed products.

Realistically if you see full speed off-peak and maybe a few hundred megs on peak without packet loss and jitter, thats going to be good enough.

I understand now & thanks a lot guys and gals now you have taught me.

- but still, at 4 am?! I could understand if it was daytime, i got up deliberately for the testing thinking it would be dead quiet at 4 am - funnily enough it happened to be worse during the night than during the day>? I live in a block of flats and I'm the first to get it in this block, direct to the property of course, as some flats have it installed in a manner that it is shared, at least i think they do.. and I didn't think on that not all FTTP connections would be 900Mbps, some are 50Mbps I believe? - I don't know if it's true, but do BT install FTTP for ALL connection speeds now?, and are other ISPs..? to get rid of Copper once and for all? (still got mine).

I reset the TCP/IP Stack - no difference, I used TCP Optimizer 4 - but not too worry as I understand the workings behind it now.
IPv6 seems to have cheered my Xbox up - everything is working it says, where on Plusnet there was no IPv6 and reported other issues (but it still worked)

cheers

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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: BT 900 installed, experiences and questions
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2021, 05:45:29 PM »

Yes, FTTP is intended to replace all the FTTC speed tiers.
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