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Author Topic: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)  (Read 596 times)

Alex Atkin UK

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Re: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2021, 12:43:04 AM »

The only technophobe I know personally got rid of his landland decades ago, he only (grudgingly) has a dumb mobile phone.

Not that I disagree that it WILL cause issues with some people who DO have them and no wish for broadband.  I've also experiences calls to/from VoIP based call centres where the call quality was utter garbage, dropping out, like a bad mobile phone call - not something that happens with POTS.  So despite being pro-technology in general, I'm still a VoIP sceptic, not least as if we maintain net neutrality (which we absolutely need) then what's to keep VoIP functional under contention?
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Weaver

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Re: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2021, 09:34:55 AM »

> what’s to keep VoIP functional under contention?

QoS and priority marking, either at L2 or L3 or both, no? I’m pretty sure BT do this, read something somewhere in a BT document, very vague unreliable memory.

AA’s internal network can prioritise customers’ traffic who have paid an extra £10 pm for ‘premium/priority’. So they for example have the technical capability to do QoS or a similar function.
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j0hn

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Re: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2021, 11:11:17 AM »

John I think you are missing the point I am trying to make. What about all those pensioners who don't have the internet at home and still rely on a house phone or those technophobes who hate technology and will refuse to give it house room, also the elderly disabled or blind have to be considered? What is going to happen to them when they remove the copper service and how will they cope both with technology which only works if you have power. I know anyone on here is likely to cope very well but there must be 1000s of older folk in that category. I understand there are provisions but they rely on an internet connection and a battery backup which only Virgin so far have said they will provide. What will this cost in comparison to a current phone only used for a few calls? I understand there will be trails but these will only be of use if folks in these categories are included to make sure it supports them as well.

I think you're doing a disservice to pensioners.
The pensioners I know are capable of plugging a phone from a master socket to a router/hub, especially with illustrated instructions explaining it. If switching to FTTP an engineer will do this for them.

That's a completely different debate to the 1 above. You're going back to the old debate about PSTN closing and having no backup power.
Pardon the pun but that's flogging a dead horse I'm afraid, it's happening and for good reason.

They can't possibly keep a very expensive, outdated telephone network running simply because it works during a powercut.
The majority of the exchanges that power the PSTN network won't exists in the next decade.
Who should pay the billions to extend the leases on these thousands of exchanges for the small number of users who will be impacted.

For the very very small percentage of the population who suffer regular powercuts we have mobile phones.
For anyone with no mobile signal or who is vunerable there is UPS to provide backup power.

Your original gripe was that it was a complicated process to keep your landline number.
That has nothing to do with PSTN closing though.

Since the days of ADSL providers have been free to sell whatever products they wish.
They can sell only a landline. They can sell only broadband. They can sell both. They can let you buy the landline from 1 provider while they provide only broadband on the same pair.
Each provider has been free to choose which of the above they offer to customers.

Talktalk made the decision years ago to only sell Voice+broadband combined and only if you buy both from them. You can't buy just a landline or just broadband from them.
They have now decided to sell FTTP as a data only product and customers are free to change provider.

The issue of splitting your phone number from the broadband has existed for all of that time. It's not new or caused by the PSTN closure.

The average pensioner isn't going to have the dilemma you are facing as they can simply pick a provider that sells both broadband+voice.

Providers automatically label VOIP traffic with an 802.1p marker to prioritize that traffic. During congestion regular packets will be dropped before any VOIP traffic.

I understand people's dislike of change but the PSTN switch off is a necessity that could and probably should already have been done years ago.
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Weaver

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Re: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2021, 12:08:21 PM »

What J0hn said.

And pensioners who are not with it or who have problems will have a neighbour, friend, relative, engineer, social worker or carer to sort them out. My wife’s mum is 95 and she has a mobile phone which she can manage ok. When she loses her analog landline, her phone will just be plugged into some new black box and she won’t know the difference.
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dee.jay

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Re: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2021, 01:33:47 PM »

My dad is 78 and it's quite the opposite - he is practically deaf so a landline is pretty useless despite having a loud telephone (It has nearly deafened me on occasion!)

He uses a smartphone with no problem once he's used to it - just takes a bit longer to master a new device should he require one.

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Re: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2021, 03:02:50 PM »

Could your dad use textual messaging services, such as email, SMS, Apple iMessage,  FB Messenger, WhatsApp even, if desperate?  ;)
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2021, 03:04:58 PM »

> what’s to keep VoIP functional under contention?

QoS and priority marking, either at L2 or L3 or both, no? I’m pretty sure BT do this, read something somewhere in a BT document, very vague unreliable memory.

AA’s internal network can prioritise customers’ traffic who have paid an extra £10 pm for ‘premium/priority’. So they for example have the technical capability to do QoS or a similar function.

Does that not go against net neutrality though?  Though I do think VoIP and gaming traffic SHOULD get priority over downloads, its a slippery slope as we see in the US where ISPs don't bother to upgrade their backhaul, instead throttling peoples usage.

I originally left Plusnet when they started throttling Usenet traffic, they were supposed to do it after x amount of data but the profile got stuck and throttling me 24/7.  Fortunately the UK has moved against from that sort of thing particularly as Openreach improved how the backhaul works.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 03:15:37 PM by Alex Atkin UK »
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Re: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2021, 04:42:50 PM »

@Alex I’m not sure I understand your question about net neutrality. This part of the network is strictly AA-internal, and all users have chosen AA as their ISP. They have the choice to get premium/priority or not, which is fantastic - I love having that option. This isn’t about particular non-AA services getting prioritised in a way that users can’t control, as rumour has it in the USA.

Net neutrality AFAIK doesn’t apply to prioritisation for the technical needs of the admins of the networks or for the needs of real-time traffic. I believe the rules actually acknowledge this, no?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: VoIP (and "Broadstairs" in Broadstairs)
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2021, 03:33:59 AM »

Net neutrality AFAIK doesn’t apply to prioritisation for the technical needs of the admins of the networks or for the needs of real-time traffic. I believe the rules actually acknowledge this, no?

Its always seemed fuzzy about that and as were technically no longer restricted by the EU, this government could probably be persuaded to throw it all in the trash anyway. :(

I've never seen any sort of official guidelines regarding how net neutrality was supposed to be enforced by ISPs.

I mean it could be argued that Zoom calls are essential real-timne communications, yet so many people have problems with them its obviously not getting prioritised.  Although I guess half the problem there is if you are the sender its your router that would need to do that, the ISP can only control the other direction.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 03:36:17 AM by Alex Atkin UK »
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