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Author Topic: IP over PPP LCP  (Read 2899 times)

Weaver

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IP over PPP LCP
« on: October 29, 2021, 03:52:09 PM »

Andrews and Arnold have told me that they can transmit your IP packets within PPP LCP PDUs. This is an alternative format from the normal technique for transporting user data in PPP, cooked up by AA. I read that from AA’s experience it seems that such traffic gets priority within BT exchanges as BT doesn’t understand it and seemingly handles it differently. AA once used it to rescue a customer who was suffering from BT exchange congestion, with success.

I wouldn’t mind the priority phenomenon. Also there’s the matter of privacy; it’s a very week form if encryption - by obfuscation - simply because BT doesn’t understand it, so if you’re really paranoid about BT snooping on your traffic then it’s a cheap and nasty technique for avoiding surveillance. If you don’t use a proper encrypted tunnel because you don’t trust the tunnel broker then this might be an alternative, I don’t know.

I’m wondering if I should go for it ?
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burakkucat

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2021, 05:40:15 PM »

Andrews and Arnold have told me that they can transmit your IP packets within PPP LCP PDUs.

. . .

I’m wondering if I should go for it ?

I will say "no" but, ultimately, the choice is yours to make.
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Weaver

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2021, 06:51:54 PM »

Why so, my friend ?

I have no definite reason as to why I should try this experiment; even if it’s true about the priority for free, it’s not something I need as I don’t see a current problem, and then there remains the paranoia thing, which is quite attractive.
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Reformed

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2021, 07:39:22 PM »

Others are offering 900 Mb, A&A are offering 160 Mb encapsulated in control packets.

Weaver

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2021, 08:27:16 PM »

AA will happily give you 900 Mbps, and much more, just in a leased line and charge thousands for it !  :)

I think they feel they need to spend a lot of money on upgrading their network for 900 Mbps users, this is because they guarantee ‘not to be the bottleneck’ and used to / maybe still do publish contention/packet loss stats.

They do need to get on and do it soonest though.
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burakkucat

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2021, 10:21:08 PM »

Why so, my friend ?

Our new member, Reformed, virtually states my thoughts in the following message --

Others are offering 900 Mb, A&A are offering 160 Mb encapsulated in control packets.
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burakkucat

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2021, 10:26:39 PM »

I think they feel they need to spend a lot of money on upgrading their network for 900 Mbps users, this is because they guarantee ‘not to be the bottleneck’ and used to / maybe still do publish contention/packet loss stats.

They do need to get on and do it soonest though.

As the "final mile" is slowly transformed from a metallic to an optical pathway A&A, with their Firebricks, will become legacy providers unless they are prepared to adapt.  :-X
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Weaver

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2021, 11:03:24 PM »

You’re absolutely right. Adapt or die. Demon imho never adapted when DSL came out.
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Weaver

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2021, 11:10:15 PM »

@Reformed It doesn’t look like I will ever see 160 Mbps, let alone 900 Mbps, given that my >7km copper lines give 2.9 Mbps / 0.5 Mbps or less sync rates now on ADSL2.
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j0hn

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2021, 02:15:19 AM »

@Reformed It doesn’t look like I will ever see 160 Mbps, let alone 900 Mbps, given that my >7km copper lines give 2.9 Mbps / 0.5 Mbps or less sync rates now on ADSL2.

Have you filled your details in to the OpenReach fibre availability checker?
Your address shows up as FTTP planned to be built "in your area" Stick your email in the form.

R100 looks to be covering you. I can't find your address on their site. That suggests a SuperFast connection coming for other properties with the same postcode.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 02:23:41 AM by j0hn »
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Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

Weaver

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2021, 04:19:51 AM »

I just filled in the form.

I’m assuming that ‘in your area’ means in civilisation, where FTTC does exist. But they would have to run 5 miles of fibre to get into Heasta from NSBFD, so I assume they’ll just wimp out of it somehow, tell us to get satellite, or 4G or something, and fob us off that way. We’ll have to see.

If I had a mountain of cash I’d try and get FTTPoD.
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Weaver

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2021, 01:21:40 PM »

About the stupid paranoia thing. Do we believe (seriously) that BTW / BTOR has snooping equipment installed at a point downstream from where traffic gets to customer-ISPs ? So even if, say, AA swears not to record your stuff then BT might be effectively ‘overriding’ that ?
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Reformed

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2021, 02:34:45 PM »

Other than anything required by law for lawful intercept no, we don't.

A&A's issue with higher rated services is more that they are waiting for their new Firebrick to be ready. The current one has 2 gigabit ports only, and they've racks of them at their POPs.  :)

burakkucat

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2021, 12:35:22 AM »

The subsequent posts regarding service provider Firebrick devices have now been split off into a separate topic --

Service Provider Firebrick Devices
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andrew-AAISP

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Re: IP over PPP LCP
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2021, 08:18:11 AM »

Others are offering 900 Mb, A&A are offering 160 Mb encapsulated in control packets.

 ;D

The IP-over-LCP option was put in a while back (2015) whilst we were investigating some odd latency/congestion/limiting within BT's 20CN network. This helped up prove to BT that there was odd things going on in their network as throughput/latency went away when IPoLCP was used. It's am extremely niche option, hardly ever needed, but it's there when we 'just want to give it a go' when investigating strange behaviours on backhaul networks.

The feature is ferenced in these posts:
https://www.revk.uk/2015/02/congestion-case-study.html
https://www.revk.uk/2016/07/the-new-elephant-in-room-meta-data.html


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