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Author Topic: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?  (Read 566 times)

Jon21

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FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« on: October 13, 2021, 05:34:10 PM »

Just wondering if these can be run in a modem/bridge mode? I've seen the odd bits of information on forums but not a guide as such to set it up.
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tiffy

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2021, 07:18:07 PM »

I would say yes.
Have never actually deployed my Zen supplied unit so can't actually comment regarding usage on FTTC service, however, I believe that Zen supply this model on their FTTP service also so as such would be "bridged" to the ONT.

I'am sure a more definative opinion will be along shortly.
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g3uiss

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2021, 09:50:47 PM »

On FTTP it wouldn’t be bridged it would be in router mode as the ONT is the “modem” in old money.
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Jon21

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2021, 11:03:59 PM »

I think this is perhaps the correct way of doing it. Although it's for a 3490: https://uktechhub.com/forums/topic/fritzbox-3490-set-up-a-modem-bridge-mode/

Quote
Log onto Fritz!box UI and go to the Top Right corner and enable the Advanced View option.

Then go to INTERNET > DSL Information and set Annex to B, if based in UK and Using VDSL (FTTC) or Annex A if you are using ADSL and ADSL+ (not sure if really needed)

Then go to INTERNET > ACCOUNT INFORMATION and select
·         Connect to DSL Line (check box)
·         Account information (No)
·         Connection Settings > Change Connection Settings
o   VLAN ID (101) for BT Fibre and Plusnet Fibre
o   Encapsulation > Routed Bridge Encapsulation and check the obtain the IP address automatically check box

Then Select PPPoE Passthrough and check the ‘Connected Devices are also allowed to their own Internet connection’ box.

Do not forget to disable the 2.4GHz and 5Ghz wifi and I used LAN 1 from the Modem (Fritz!Box) to the Router (WAN – PPPoE) etc….

Not sure if the 7530 would be any better than the Vigor 130 I have. The Zyxel 1312-B10A achieves the highest sync of the modems I've tried so far, although also has the most error seconds as well.
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tiffy

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2021, 09:07:18 AM »

On FTTP it wouldn’t be bridged it would be in router mode as the ONT is the “modem” in old money.

Probably my ignorance of "bridged" terminology.
I have always considered "bridged" to be either way around, in the context of this question:
Fritzbox as router WAN port connected to a modem/ONT.
or
Fritzbox as modem (obviously ADSL/VDSL service only) connected to a router WAN port.

Glad to be further corrected/educated on this subject.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2021, 10:16:50 AM »

Probably my ignorance of "bridged" terminology.
I have always considered "bridged" to be either way around, in the context of this question:
Fritzbox as router WAN port connected to a modem/ONT.
or
Fritzbox as modem (obviously ADSL/VDSL service only) connected to a router WAN port.

Glad to be further corrected/educated on this subject.

Bridge mode basically means its acting like a network switch, only in this case its passing between a virtual ethernet interface and a real one.

The ONT is a GPON to Ethernet bridge.
A VDSL router in bridge mode is a VDSL to Ethernet bridge.

A router is inherently not counted as a bridge in normal mode as by definition its routing the traffic, not just passing it between two (or more) interfaces.
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tiffy

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2021, 03:43:27 PM »

@Alex Atkin UK:

Thank you for the clarification
I do appreciate the logistics but likely did not explain my question very well, it's just terminology that I seek clarification on.

For example, sticking with the device in question, Fritzbox 7530 modem/router as an example:
Fritzbox as modem only used in conjunction with "an-other" router.
Fritzbox as router only used in conjunction with "an-other" modem.

Can the Fritzbox be classified as "bridged" in either of these modes or only one, if so which?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2021, 04:24:43 PM »

When configured as a modem only it would indeed be a bridge, assuming it lets you configure it to be so. (I believe it does but mine has OpenWRT flashed on it so can't check)

Used as a router with another modem, its still a router. ;)  The basic principle is the Internet is broken up into smaller subnets and a router passes IP traffic between different subnets, because they can't see each other directly but know from the routing table which gateway is connected to which subnet.  Without that there would be no way to know which pipe to send any given traffic down to reach its destination.

In a home router case its relatively dumb about it, assuming that our ISP router is the right place to send any packet not destined for a private IP address. (which wouldn't usually reach the router anyway as the switch would send that direct on the LAN side)
A bridge doesn't care what protocol is in use as its working at a lower layer, it merely passes packets from one network adapter (or port if its a switch, but same thing) to another, virtual or otherwise.

A bridge and a switch are functionally the same thing, except a bridge may actually be translating the data from a tunnel inside another protocol (DSL,GPON, etc) and converting it back into standard ethernet.  Which is why you can connect a computer directly to a modem and have it get the public IP address, but you need a router to perform NAT in order to translate between multiple machines with private address and that single public address.  For all intents and purposes, the Internet only sees ONE device connected, the router, it has no clue how many devices are on the other side.  Its slightly different once you have multiple public IP addresses but there must be thousands of guides out there already that can explain that better than I can.

Plus there's the whole IPv6 where technically you could bypass having a router at all, depending on how the ISP is configured, if you didn't care about security. Because the ISP router already knows what subnet is on your side of the link and it will broadcast back to your network what gateway it needs to talk to in order to reach the other subnets.

I hope I've not confused you too much, my explanation was a bit all over the place.  This is why I never wanted to be a teacher. ;)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 04:50:15 PM by Alex Atkin UK »
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burakkucat

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2021, 04:57:27 PM »

For example, sticking with the device in question, Fritzbox 7530 modem/router as an example:
Fritzbox as modem only used in conjunction with "an-other" router.
Fritzbox as router only used in conjunction with "an-other" modem.

Can the Fritzbox be classified as "bridged" in either of these modes or only one, if so which?

Using your example, the first case (assuming it is possible -- I don't actually know).
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Weaver

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2021, 07:07:19 PM »

A bridge (and an ONT) is very simple; in our case here it has just two interfaces and simply copies everything from one to the other. In the general case it has more interfaces and works out which interface to send stuff to based on the L2 destination address = MAC address (ie ethernet address) in each of the ethernet PDUs. A bridge  is very similar to an ethernet switch, but switches sometimes have more ports, and only do ethernet, with no other kinds of interfaces.

A router is more complex. It looks at L3 addresses - IP addresses (IPv4 and IPv6 addresses) and decides which interface to send the IP PDUs (packets) to. This is done according to a table containing IP addresses and rules. Routers sometimes additionally do NAT, do wireless, and have eg modems built-in - things that have nothing to do with being a router. Having firewall capability in a router is extremely common. My router is also a firewall, but has no wireless, no modem, and I don’t do NAT for internet access.

‘Bridge mode’ means setting a router up to disable its routing function so it becomes a simple bridge and copies stuff between its two interfaces

Here L2 = ethernet, and L3 = IPv4 or IPv6.

Apologies if you knew all of that already.
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tiffy

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2021, 09:34:28 PM »

Thanks to all for the further input, much appreciated.
Apologies to "Jon21" as I appear to have wandered somewhat off topic and monopalised your post.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2021, 03:08:50 AM »

And behold, Weaver managed to explain it a million times clearer than I did with less words.
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Jon21

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2021, 04:45:56 PM »

Thanks to all for the further input, much appreciated.
Apologies to "Jon21" as I appear to have wandered somewhat off topic and monopalised your post.
No problem :) It's all useful information. I've set it up but havent tried it as yet, mainly as I wasn't sure if I'd be able to access the Fritzbox afterwards. Tried the IP address but wasn't able to get to the GUI.
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Chunkers

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2021, 06:15:00 PM »

Mine didn't have a proper bridge mode allowing you to use the router as a modem, the 'passthrough' mode did not work at all with my pfSense router. I have two of these and tried them both.

So, unless things have changed since I tried, then I would say, no

My guess is a firmware change could easily change this but I felt this was deliberate decision by the manufacturer, happy to be corrected on this if it has changed!

C
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j0hn

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Re: FRITZ!Box 7530 - can these be run in modem/bridge mode?
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2021, 06:50:26 PM »

Bridge mode works perfectly. It just requires slightly odd settings.

Setup PPPoE passthrough.
Enter incorrect PPP credentials on the fritzbox so it fails to authenticate.
Configure your router.

https://www.edpnet.be/en/support/installation-and-usage/internet/manage-fritz!box/how-do-i-configure-my-fritzbox-in-bridge-mode.html
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