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Author Topic: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router  (Read 1840 times)

jamesbob

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"sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« on: February 11, 2022, 11:22:14 PM »

I would like some recommendations for a sober VDSL+wifi6 modem router.

What do I mean by "sober"? I mean:
  • unobtrusive physical design - not an upside down alien spider from a sci-fi movie
  • reliable, stable and performant DSL connection - a good quality DSL chipset and optimisations like adjusting the SNR to get the optimum performance 
  • good WiFi - with no misleading stats used for advertising, just getting the core physics right like number of antennae (4x4 vs 2x2), techniques like beam forming and MIMO, auto adaption of channels to avoid congestion
  • simple - doing a few things and doing them well, no need for voice call tech, USB storage, media services or print servers
  • an excellent and quick admin UI - quick to load and run, sensible and well designed interface
  • sensible customisation and optimisations - like QoS for video streams, firewall rules, port forwarding, custom DHCP ranges, DNS override
  • convenience - like auto update of firmware without manually uploading it, saving config files
  • good and reasonably long firmware update support

Over the last 20 years or so I have used Netgear, TPLink, D-Link and Draytek, and possibly others.

In all that time I have found my current Fritzbox 7530 to be the best according to that list of desirable characteristics - simple, efficient, reliable.

I am looking for a new device because:
  • the number of devices in my home doing concurrent streaming has grown (zoom, streaming tv, work teams meetings, all happening at the same time)
  • the number of devices connected has grown to about 15
  • the wifi signal in some parts of the home, and in the shed, is weak

I am considering the Fritzbox 7530 AX - but this is hard to get in the UK. Some online reviews suggest wifi 6 will extend the wifi reach - but this requires wifi6 clients. I am unconvinced, I thought this was purely a function of power, which was limited by law.

Should I go for devices with more aerials and MIMO? The 7590 has 4x4 not 2x2. I expect this will make a difference because it isn't just marketing, it is actually additional physical aerials?

I am led to believe that external aerials are just for show. My experience is that the Fritxbox 7530 has good reception compared to the TPLink vr900 I had with external aerials.

Since the Fritzbox 7530 AX is hard to get in the UK, and expensive when ordered from Europe, I am considering the Technicolor Cobra M DGA4134, however I seem to recall lots of online discussion years ago about their devices being really poor for wifi.

For clarity, I don't want a separate model and wifi AP because I don't have space for additional devices and wires and power sockets.

I would prefer to avoid mesh type extenders, and see if I can get far enough with just one device.

My internet is from Zen, and is a VDSL connection. I have had mixed replies from Zen and BT on what the cabinet is.. but have found anecdotally that the (lantiq?) chipset in the Fritzzbox has a good solid sync compared to the TPLink vr900's Broadcom but that might be due to wider quality issues of the vr900. I'm currently getting 55Mbs down and 9 up which is not bad given the large distance to the cabinet (600m I think).

I would appreciate your thoughts - I came here as I know many here see past the marketing and hype and prefer facts, evidence and physics!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 12:28:44 AM by jamesbob »
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2022, 02:43:43 AM »

You're actually asking a lot.

The more alien it looks, the better the WiFi signal is likely to be due to more antennas and potentially more directional so more gain in any given direction.  Although internal antennas aren't inherently bad (after all, a good dedicated Access Point they usually are internal), they can be and it limits your choices in angling them for best reception.

All-in-one routers with decent DSL chipsets are few and far between, not sure there are ANY WiFi 6 ones at all.

SNR adjustment is only useful in very niche circumstances like my own where I'm on an ECI cabinet with a clean line so pulling the SNRm down a little allows me full sync.  However unless its a VERY clean line, you'll likely end up banded as I did when my drop wire developed a fault.

As such, I have a hacked Home Hub 5A running OpenWRT in bridge mode to tweak my SNR, a pfSense router and a WiFi 6 Access Point - so I could pick and choose what I thought would be best for each task.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 02:46:02 AM by Alex Atkin UK »
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Weaver

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2022, 05:42:54 AM »

I agree with Alex; asking quite a lot about the alien appearance thing. A thought: if you can’t put a WAP somewhere out of the way where it isn’t noticeable, why not put an RF-transparent cover over it?

A second thought: if you have an alien large WAP, employ a large cat to sit on top of it and provide visual distraction? I do.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 05:45:07 AM by Weaver »
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Chrysalis

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2022, 09:51:22 AM »

Alex kind of tempted myself to adjust snr, I am interleaved anyway, and only syncing around 74, so if I get banded there is no loss and I expect interleaving will handle the loss of snrm, how easy is it to get openwrt on a home hub 5a?
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skyeci

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2022, 11:49:46 AM »

Been running my ds snr at 4db for months on my eci line. Have lifted the ds sync from 62 to 67 using the v130...no issues.

j0hn

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2022, 12:56:04 PM »

To get the features you want you will probably need to run a separate modem and router.
The are very very few all in one units with some of the features you require.

The Asus DSL-AX82U might do everything you require but it won't match the styling you probably want.
I would also advise anyone against ever buying an Asus DSL model with built in chipset.
The Asus RT (router only) equivalents are always better. The firmwares for the DSL/RT models are made by different teams within Asus and the DSL models are usually very neglected.

My recommendation is to split this in to 2 boxes. A dedicated modem to handle the sync to the cabinet and a dedicated router for the rest.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2022, 06:52:05 PM »

Alex kind of tempted myself to adjust snr, I am interleaved anyway, and only syncing around 74, so if I get banded there is no loss and I expect interleaving will handle the loss of snrm, how easy is it to get openwrt on a home hub 5a?

Its a little complicated as you have to flash it from serial console which means soldering some really tiny connections which I was surprised I was able to do as I suck at soldering and have very unsteady hands.
I believe there are quite a few floating around eBay pre-flashed though and once its done you can update OpenWRT as normal via the UI.

The end result though:
Code: [Select]
Line Uptime: 58d 10h 31m 39s
Attain Data Rate: 86.817 Mb/s / 25.027 Mb/s
Actual Data Rate: 79.995 Mb/s / 20.000 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot: 0.0 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay: 0.0 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC: 255 / 255
RFEC: 16 / 16
LSYMB: 21451 / 5410
Interleave Depth: 1 / 1
Interleave Block: 255 / 255
LPATH: 0 / 0
Line Attenuation: 11.8dB / 13.4dB
Signal Attenuation: 11.8dB / 13.2dB
Noise Margin: 4.0dB / 9.1dB
Transmit power: 13.9dBm / 3.3dBm
FECS: 723467 / 37964
ES: 5342 / 36277
SES: 0 / 17
LOSS: 6 / 0
UAS: 145 / 145
HEC: 0 / 0
CRC_P: 0 / 0
CRCP_P: 0 / 0
15m Code Violations: 0 / 0
15m FEC Errors: 0 / 3
1d Code Violations: 67 / 106
1d FEC Errors: 21210 / 541
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 12:59:37 AM by Alex Atkin UK »
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gt94sss2

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2022, 10:27:00 PM »

My internet is from Zen, and is a VDSL connection. I have had mixed replies from Zen and BT on what the cabinet is.. but have found anecdotally that the (lantiq?) chipset in the Fritzzbox has a good solid sync compared to the TPLink vr900's Broadcom but that might be due to wider quality issues of the vr900. I'm currently getting 55Mbs down and 9 up which is not bad given the large distance to the cabinet (600m I think).

What Zen service are you on? It is always interesting to see modem stats when your speeds are around 55/10.

What speeds does https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/ show for your line?

You can use your CAB number from that site in conjunction with https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm to identify the cabinet make (or your modem stats)
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jamesbob

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2022, 11:12:15 PM »

Hi gt94sss2

I was on Zen's Unlimited Fibre 1 (max 40Mbs) but am testing package 2 to see what speeds I can get. I seem to get 55Mbs down.

 The BT broadband checker site says, I'm not sure what the numbers mean.
  VDSL Range A (Clean) help   69.6   49.9   15.4   10   44.4   Available   Available   --
  VDSL Range B (Impacted) help   67.2   44.4   14.9   8.6   35.5   Available   Available

The cabinet is apparently ECI from the codebook website. My Fritzbox thinks the other end is a "Infineon: Version 13.2.6" - again I don't know the meaning of this.

Today my modem is telling me:
  Receive direction: 56,56 Mbit/s
  Send direction: 9.073 kbit/s


If I can get a discount from Zen for being with them for 18 years .. I may stick with package 2 otherwise I'll go back down to package 1 because the 40Mbs down and 9 up was ok for the price.

My original question is primarily about optimising for many concurrent wifi clients.
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burakkucat

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2022, 11:22:45 PM »

The cabinet is apparently ECI from the codebook website. My Fritzbox thinks the other end is a "Infineon: Version 13.2.6" . . .

The information your Fritz!Box has output is the manufacturer (and version number) of the chip-set controlling the line-card port and, as it displays Infineon, that is conformation that the cabinet is equipped with ECI electronics. (If the cabinet was equipped with Huawei electronics your Fritz!Box would have shown "Broadcom".)

Infineon is a chip-set manufacturer that was absorbed into Lantiq and Lantiq is a chip-set manufacturer that was absorbed into Intel.
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Chrysalis

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Re: "sober" choices for a VDSL+wifi6 modem router
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2022, 07:51:31 AM »

Its a little complicated as you have to flash it from serial console which means soldering some really tiny connections which I was surprised I was able to do as I suck at soldering and have very unsteady hands.
I believe there are quite a few floating around eBay pre-flashed though and once its done you can update OpenWRT as normal via the UI.

The end result though:
Code: [Select]
Line Uptime: 58d 10h 31m 39s
Attain Data Rate: 86.817 Mb/s / 25.027 Mb/s
Actual Data Rate: 79.995 Mb/s / 20.000 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot: 0.0 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay: 0.0 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC: 255 / 255
RFEC: 16 / 16
LSYMB: 21451 / 5410
Interleave Depth: 1 / 1
Interleave Block: 255 / 255
LPATH: 0 / 0
Line Attenuation: 11.8dB / 13.4dB
Signal Attenuation: 11.8dB / 13.2dB
Noise Margin: 4.0dB / 9.1dB
Transmit power: 13.9dBm / 3.3dBm
FECS: 723467 / 37964
ES: 5342 / 36277
SES: 0 / 17
LOSS: 6 / 0
UAS: 145 / 145
HEC: 0 / 0
CRC_P: 0 / 0
CRCP_P: 0 / 0
15m Code Violations: 0 / 0
15m FEC Errors: 0 / 3
1d Code Violations: 67 / 106
1d FEC Errors: 21210 / 541

Found a plusnet one hub that has only been opened to flash openwrt, so pre flashed.  Will report back here how my experience goes.  :)
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